Immigrant Children Cry Out in Audio Recorded at Detention Center

[Ironclad43 131]

I don't know what you guys were discussing in these last 7 pages, i'll probably read that now, but here's one foolproof way to not have your children taken from you:

 

Do not commit crimes. Do not attempt to enter another country illegally, and do not submit false asylum claims. Domestic violence is not grounds for asylum. Poor economic prospects are not grounds for asylum. Anything other than legitimate political persecution of yourself and your loved ones, is not grounds for asylum.

 

Immigrate the right way - the legal way. Most of us on this forum are legal immigrants (apart from the DACAs - you don't get to keep the proceeds of your parents' crimes) and we've waited a long time in line, and paid thousands of dollars in fees to the USCIS to be admitted lawfully and reside in the US. What the Media and Establishment want to achieve by this is open borders. That will be a disaster for the US. They're tugging at your heart strings to pull out your brain. Do not let it happen.

[bcking 3,157]

1 hour ago, Ironclad43 said:

I don't know what you guys were discussing in these last 7 pages, i'll probably read that now, but here's one foolproof way to not have your children taken from you:

 

Do not commit crimes. Do not attempt to enter another country illegally, and do not submit false asylum claims. Domestic violence is not grounds for asylum. Poor economic prospects are not grounds for asylum. Anything other than legitimate political persecution of yourself and your loved ones, is not grounds for asylum.

 

Immigrate the right way - the legal way. Most of us on this forum are legal immigrants (apart from the DACAs - you don't get to keep the proceeds of your parents' crimes) and we've waited a long time in line, and paid thousands of dollars in fees to the USCIS to be admitted lawfully and reside in the US. What the Media and Establishment want to achieve by this is open borders. That will be a disaster for the US. They're tugging at your heart strings to pull out your brain. Do not let it happen.

I agree with you generally, with one caveat.

 

In my opinion, I don't think a proper deterrent for families to not enter illegaly is to separate them from their children. I definitely think we can be firmer with illegal immigration, and we definitely can send a message that it won't work, you won't be welcomed, and you will be sent back. But through all of that, I think we could do it in a way that doesn't separate families. We could hold them together, process them, and then send them back together. Is family separation an effective deterrent? Perhaps, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. I think we can hold ourselves to a higher moral standard, while still enforcing immigration laws and still curbing illegal immigration.

 

When we decide to use something like "family separation" as a deterrent for the parents, we are involving other people (the children) who aren't involved in the decision making, but can suffer as a result. While yes their parents are committing a crime, and shouldnt' be encouraged to do so, they are still their parents and the child shouldn't be separated unless deemed necessary. Separation should be an exception, not a rule.

Edited June 20, 2018 by bcking

[Ironclad43 131]

Oh I fully agree with you that we shouldn't separate families of illegal aliens. They should instead be turned back the moment they're caught, together. No judge, no court date, no trial, no detention. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Ironclad43

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, Ironclad43 said:

Oh I fully agree with you that we shouldn't separate families of illegal aliens. They should instead be turned back the moment they're caught, together. No judge, no court date, no trial, no detention. 

Well unfortunately if they are claiming asylum I think it warrants detention and evaluation. While yes many may lie about it, that doesn't negate the fact that there are people with legitimate claims of asylum and I generally would err on the side of "helping" people. But maybe I'm just too nice and naive.

[Ironclad43 131]

Separation is only done in some cases with asylum seekers, though. It's only done on those who have criminal proceedings against them (illegal entry, illegal re-entry) or where there is reasonable doubt that the adult is the actual parent of the child.

 

No one in MSM would say that though.

[bcking 3,157]

5 minutes ago, Ironclad43 said:

Separation is only done in some cases with asylum seekers, though. It's only done on those who have criminal proceedings against them (illegal entry, illegal re-entry) or where there is reasonable doubt that the adult is the actual parent of the child.

 

No one in MSM would say that though.

Right now since we are enforcing the law 100%, all cases of illegal entry have criminal proceedings against them. I'm not saying that is wrong, but that means that all cases of asylum seekers who enter illegally will have their children separated from them.

 

I was under the impression we were only talking about illegal entry. If an asylum seeker enters legally, they aren't really part of this discussion. The 2,000 children being separated are all illegal entries (I believe?). In my opinion, even if you enter illegally but you are seeking asylum, you shouldn't be separated unless there are additional grounds for separation (doubt that the parent is actually the parent, other criminal proceedings other than illegal entry).

 

While illegal entry is a crime and I'm not disagreeing with enforcing our borders, I don't think it should be lumped together with more serious crimes. Legitimate asylum cases are very likely to enter illegally as well, because if they are truly fleeing from political persecution they may not have the time or resources to plan their entry through legal means, or they may just lack the education required to know where to go and how to do it so they figure they will just get across to where they are "safe" and then get processed. I can't imagine being in that position, so I can't really fault them for that.

Edited June 20, 2018 by bcking

[yuna628 9,676]

8 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

I have it on excellent authority that these claims are often embellished.

U.S.-born women experience the same in many places here, every day.

You claim that someone claims that claims are embellished. And are often embellished at that. Even if that is true, that does not mean all claims are embellished. What does it matter that US-born women experience the same? No woman anywhere should be experiencing it.

8 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

I have it on the same excellent authority that, in USCIS asylum hearings (not to be confused with Immigration Court), the USCIS officers do not ask, "If we let you stay, what precisely do you have to offer the United States?"

 

In addition, there's a marked difference between the uneducated, untrained Central Americans (who are chiefly the subject of this thread) and educated, often-bilingual Venezuelans in terms of performance during their respective asylum hearings.  The latter group's rationales for the granting of asylum are stronger, more specific, and better reasoned than are the often manufactured claims of the former.  Not at liberty to divulge details other than to say that the foregoing pattern became clear and consistent over a period of months in a ferociously busy center.

Why does an asylum seeker need to be asked such a question? Why should any immigrant be asked such a question? We never asked it of our ancestors. Nor did our founders think of this country in that way.

[Boiler 45,519]

9 minutes ago, bcking said:

Right now since we are enforcing the law 100%, all cases of illegal entry have criminal proceedings against them. I'm not saying that is wrong, but that means that all cases of asylum seekers who enter illegally will have their children separated from them.

 

I was under the impression we were only talking about illegal entry. If an asylum seeker enters legally, they aren't really part of this discussion. The 2,000 children being separated are all illegal entries (I believe?). In my opinion, even if you enter illegally but you are seeking asylum, you shouldn't be separated unless there are additional grounds for separation (doubt that the parent is actually the parent, other criminal proceedings other than illegal entry).

 

While illegal entry is a crime and I'm not disagreeing with enforcing our borders, I don't think it should be lumped together with more serious crimes. Legitimate asylum cases are very likely to enter illegally as well, because if they are truly fleeing from political persecution they may not have the time or resources to plan their entry through legal means, or they may just lack the education required to know where to go and how to do it so they figure they will just get across to where they are "safe" and then get processed. I can't imagine being in that position, so I can't really fault them for that.

Actually there was a similar minor claim, a lady I vaguely know apparently had a few too many, got into it with a local Deputy and spent the night in the County jail.

 

She was released the following morning and will go up in front of the judge, a fine seems likely.

 

She for some reason was also separated from her children, apparently that would be Social Services issue.

 

The horror.

 

[Boiler 45,519]

3 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

You claim that someone claims that claims are embellished. And are often embellished at that. Even if that is true, that does not mean all claims are embellished. What does it matter that US-born women experience the same? No woman anywhere should be experiencing it.

Why does an asylum seeker need to be asked such a question? Why should any immigrant be asked such a question? We never asked it of our ancestors. Nor did our founders think of this country in that way.

Immigrants are not, migrants might be.

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

Actually there was a similar minor claim, a lady I vaguely know apparently had a few too many, got into it with a local Deputy and spent the night in the County jail.

 

She was released the following morning and will go up in front of the judge, a fine seems likely.

 

She for some reason was also separated from her children, apparently that would be Social Services issue.

 

The horror.

 

I asked several pages back whether the government is releasing any figures for how long these families are remaining separated. It may not appease everyone but at least for me, if the great majority of separations last 24-48 hours, I would feel significantly reassured with the process.

 

That sort of "data" can be mocked, but the reality is it wouldn't be hard to obtain and, if it painted a slightly more positive picture, would be useful to release to the public. So the lack of available information like that means either A. They aren't that well organized and they don't have ready access to the information (which I would find disheartening, though perhaps not surprising), or B. The data they could release doesn't really help their public image (Perhaps the average separation period is several weeks?) and therefore they choose not to make it public.

[Ironclad43 131]

17 minutes ago, bcking said:

but that means that all cases of asylum seekers who enter illegally will have their children separated from them.

You seek asylum at Port of Entry, not when you're caught entering illegally.

 

It's funny how people who support abortion and divorce on demand suddenly care about family and children's welfare. 

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, Ironclad43 said:

You seek asylum at Port of Entry, not when you're caught entering illegally.

 

It's funny how people who support abortion and divorce on demand suddenly care about family and children's welfare. 

You can seek asylum after illegal entry. Asylum doesn't require legal entry, though I agree it would be the preferred mention.

 

If you want to start questioning people's priorities when it comes to family and children's welfare, how about restricting women's access to choice and then leaving them flat with no support when a baby is born that they can't support because that would be "socialism" to help them out. But this is widely off topic and your statement bringing up abortion and divorce doesn't contribute to the discussion at hand.

Edited June 20, 2018 by bcking

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

8 minutes ago, bcking said:

I asked several pages back whether the government is releasing any figures for how long these families are remaining separated. It may not appease everyone but at least for me, if the great majority of separations last 24-48 hours, I would feel significantly reassured with the process.

 

That sort of "data" can be mocked, but the reality is it wouldn't be hard to obtain and, if it painted a slightly more positive picture, would be useful to release to the public. So the lack of available information like that means either A. They aren't that well organized and they don't have ready access to the information (which I would find disheartening, though perhaps not surprising), or B. The data they could release doesn't really help their public image (Perhaps the average separation period is several weeks?) and therefore they choose not to make it public.

Why do you keep asking us about figures. I am sure you have Google also . Just saying 

[Boiler 45,519]

3 minutes ago, bcking said:

You can seek asylum after illegal entry. Asylum doesn't require legal entry, though I agree it would be the preferred mention.

And you are likely to be detained whilst doing so.

 

I would like to remind you that Our Lord Obama brought in DACA due to the abuse suffered to children being trafficked by their parents.

 

Letting children wander the streets in these circumstances seems hardly caring.

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Why do you keep asking us about figures. I am sure you have Google also . Just saying 

If you are making statements, I would assume you already have the data/figures to back them up when you make them. So they should be quick and on hand for you, rather then me searching for information to support your claim.

 

Generally the person who makes a statement provides the evidence to support it.