Item on our local news today

[natty bumppo 297]

maybe the "christians" should send their $$$ to the people facing starvation and also spend their time/ money to change the problem where the humanitarian needs are located.

It'll probably suprise you to learn that there are christians that do that too. However, they also can't seem to walk past anyone who is in need, bloody christian ethics. Maybe the only true American Christian is the right wing christian...now there's an interesting contradiction.

not suprised at all ... and yes I'm very aware that some send $$$.

I know some who do this every month, and some who want everyone else to fix the problem.

[homesick_american 1]

What does religion have to do with illegal immigration?

Nothing, particularly since the US does not have a state religion.

If these churches are getting involved in legal and political issues, I think they should lose their tax-free status. I was part of a group in Austin that visited churches and reported to the IRS those that passed out partisan voter guides. Perhaps someone should do something like that here. If churches want to get involved in politics and legal issues, let them pay the admission price.

[homesick_american 1]

the next question is ... why doesn't being politically active and/or breaking the law automatically remove a church's tax exempt status ?

It's tricky. If a church is involved in partisan politics it's easier, but not easy.

Read this from the IRS for more info:

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/ar...d=96099,00.html

Since this applies specifically to politics and not political issues it wouldn't be easy to pop them for this but if they endorse a political party or candidate, they're in violation of the law and should be reported.

[reach449 2]

I can't find a link to it but there was a huge item on the news this morning about how Churches are deliberately assisting illegal immigrants subject to deportation by advising them of their "rights", telling them not to cooperate with ICE, law enforcement, not to sign anything etc, etc and allowing them into Churches as a place of sanctuary so they cannot be deported. The woman who was the representative of Justice for Immigrants which is a Church-based organization was saying that the laws on illegal immigration are wrong and should be changed, and that because the US has turned a blind-eye to illegal immighrants for such a long time by not enforcing laws, they can't now all of a sudden start enforcing them, it's against the illegal immigrants' rights and the church will do all they can to help them.

How messed up is that?

Why is the Church even getting involved in such things? Thats seems wrong to me to claim to be a Christian and then assist someone who has broken the law.

Justice for immigrants website: http://www.justiceforimmigrants.com/action.html

Came across this interesting link trying to find the link to today's new story kind of along similar lines.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15657

That kind of justification makes my blood boil.

Perfect,

I agree with you 100%. Churches should obey the laws of the country they are in. I think sometimes people here on VJ forget what they are doing here. We are all here to talk about our experiences with the legal immigration process. It is a very emotional process for all of us, because most of the time, (K-1, K-3, etc), we are away from our loved ones. Some of us go thru hell being apart. However, we are all doing it the legal way. We are not ignoring the laws of our country. I also get frustrated with all the illegals protesting in the streets about what rights they have in this country. They have none as far as I am concerned. If they want to come to this country legally, like everyone on this site is trying to do for their loved ones, then I will welcome them. Until then, I will have no sympathy for someone breaking law to get in this country! Especially the hell I am going thru now, doing this process legally, being away from the one I love.

reach449

Edited May 10, 2007 by reach449

[Emancipation 2]

Can I ask what it means in the US to be an "illegal" immigrant?

May sound silly but are you lumping everyone into this category - be it someone who slips through the boarder and works illegally, someone who is fleeing political or religious persecution in another state and is trying to get assylum, and somone who is desperate and tries to get here by any means necessary. Are they all lumped in together?

I just want to clarify what people call "illegal" immigration.

[homesick_american 1]

Can I ask what it means in the US to be an "illegal" immigrant?

May sound silly but are you lumping everyone into this category -

Me? No.

be it someone who slips through the boarder and works illegally,

That's the worst kind of illegal, i.e. the present without inspection type. If people who are just trying to find work find it so easy to slip through our porous border, who else might find it easy? To me this is a national security issue.

someone who is fleeing political or religious persecution in another state and is trying to get assylum,

A lot of asylum claims are bogus, but to me an asylum seeker is not illegal unless their asylum application has been denied but they don't leave the United States.

and somone who is desperate and tries to get here by any means necessary. Are they all lumped in together?

Doesn't matter if they're desperate. If they think they have a legitimate asylum claim, they should make one. If they have another way to legally immigrate, great; send in the paperwork. Otherwise, ###### off.

[Oath 0]

Illegal immigration is a sore spot for me. I've spent nearly a year away from my kids and my wife because I want to enter legally and to start my life, these people seem to have just snubbed their nose at immigration law and now congress seems to want to give them permission to stay with one hand and is closing the border with another.

Edited May 10, 2007 by Oath

[rebex05 1]

Thats seems wrong to me to claim to be a Christian and then assist someone who has broken the law.

Really? I thought Jesus forgave, helped, and healed many a lawbreaker.

That's correct he did. Jesus set an example for us by being a friend to the "least of these."

I am so in agreement with you all. For too long the church, or majority of the church, has just stood aside while true Christian values have been tampled on here... and I am talking about exactly this helping the "least of these." I am empowered and glad to see people of Christian faith take a bold stand. Since when do you as a Christian just stand by when injustice occurs? I know this could take the forum in another direction about justice, but at least they are willing to help those in need.

[Emancipation 2]

[A lot of asylum claims are bogus,

Not trying to make trouble just wondered if you have examples/ stats to back that up? Just something I wonder about and wondered what you had to support that.

[natty bumppo 297]

Thats seems wrong to me to claim to be a Christian and then assist someone who has broken the law.

Really? I thought Jesus forgave, helped, and healed many a lawbreaker.

That's correct he did. Jesus set an example for us by being a friend to the "least of these."

I am so in agreement with you all. For too long the church, or majority of the church, has just stood aside while true Christian values have been tampled on here... and I am talking about exactly this helping the "least of these." I am empowered and glad to see people of Christian faith take a bold stand. Since when do you as a Christian just stand by when injustice occurs? I know this could take the forum in another direction about justice, but at least they are willing to help those in need.

those is true need ?

or those in need because they have broken the law ?

those who knowingly break the immigration laws have only one need ... to be immediately deported!

[Alex+R 0]

I am glad the Church helped protect the Jews in Athens that they could, even as the Nazis moved in and took most of them to Auschwitz. I wouldn't be here otherwise.

I think those of you saying churches should obey the laws of the countries they are in are being extremely shortsighted and confusing "legal" with "ethical." Not to mention the fact that the churches are NOT helping anyone break the law here. They are helping uphold the laws of the US which some want to discard.

[JODO 2]

Time for these "sanctuary churches" to lose their 501 status.

Church leaders need to obey the laws of the land.

Edited May 10, 2007 by JODO

[Ban Hammer 13,898]

I am glad the Church helped protect the Jews in Athens that they could, even as the Nazis moved in and took most of them to Auschwitz. I wouldn't be here otherwise.

I think those of you saying churches should obey the laws of the countries they are in are being extremely shortsighted and confusing "legal" with "ethical." Not to mention the fact that the churches are NOT helping anyone break the law here. They are helping uphold the laws of the US which some want to discard.

i don't think anyone is trying to send illegals to sniff zyclon-b, alex.

[Reynaldo 0]

i don't think anyone is trying to send illegals to sniff zyclon-b, alex.

I wouldn't be sure about that...

I read some posts here about shooting them with real bullets instead of rubber bullets, locking them in a chamber and gas them is just a small step further...

[Ban Hammer 13,898]

i don't think anyone is trying to send illegals to sniff zyclon-b, alex.

I wouldn't be sure about that...

I read some posts here about shooting them with real bullets instead of rubber bullets, locking them in a chamber and gas them is just a small step further...

emotional outbursts are a far cry from a national policy.