Violence Against Women Act and me

[Galina 0]

Oh, I know you were not saying ALL American women.....

This topic gets wheeled out every so often ( the way the petitioners refer to their SO-while at the same time dogging their own country's men/women) and it irritates me the generalizations made, that's all.

Generalization is something that people tend to do in all complicated situations (especially men!) 'cause it makes life easier when you can refer to it as to a bunch of set-up categories to solve any problems. That's why men tend to categorize women more often, their mind is less flexible and operates better in the environment of classes, types, groups. That's why there are pickup lines and forums like this!

Galina, I am enjoying your interesting and insightful posts! Thanks!

Thank you! I really appreciate you saying this!

[russ 1]

Generalization is something that people tend to do in all complicated situations (especially men!) 'cause it makes life easier when you can refer to it as to a bunch of set-up categories to solve any problems. That's why men tend to categorize women more often, their mind is less flexible and operates better in the environment of classes, types, groups. That's why there are pickup lines and forums like this!

Generalization, and grouping things together into meaningul relationships is an intrinsic part of human thought. Our intelligence in many ways depends upon this.

The invalid assumption that correlation implies cause is probably among the two or three most serious and common errors of human reasoning.

Though I think that this is better stated as "correlation can imply causality, though it does not in any way prove it." Our tendancy to group things and generalize can lead us to conclusions that are not justified. It is one of the greatest errors in human reasoning though.

This is true not only in science, but in life in general. We constantly fool ourselves by creating relationships in our minds not supported by fact.

[Galina 0]

Generalization is something that people tend to do in all complicated situations (especially men!) 'cause it makes life easier when you can refer to it as to a bunch of set-up categories to solve any problems. That's why men tend to categorize women more often, their mind is less flexible and operates better in the environment of classes, types, groups. That's why there are pickup lines and forums like this!

Generalization, and grouping things together into meaningul relationships is an intrinsic part of human thought. Our intelligence in many ways depends upon this.

The invalid assumption that correlation implies cause is probably among the two or three most serious and common errors of human reasoning.

Though I think that this is better stated as "correlation can imply causality, though it does not in any way prove it." Our tendancy to group things and generalize can lead us to conclusions that are not justified. It is one of the greatest errors in human reasoning though.

This is true not only in science, but in life in general. We constantly fool ourselves by creating relationships in our minds not supported by fact.

See, me dearest? Now you are generalizing about generalization... Which only proves me right...

[russ 1]

See, me dearest? Now you are generalizing about generalization... Which only proves me right...

I call BS.

[slim 1,525]

]

Generalization is something that people tend to do in all complicated situations (especially men!) 'cause it makes life easier when you can refer to it as to a bunch of set-up categories to solve any problems. That's why men tend to categorize women more often, their mind is less flexible and operates better in the environment of classes, types, groups. That's why there are pickup lines and forums like this!

Spot-on! You have to remember, we're like puppy dogs. (Another generalization.) All we need is food, sleep, and a little attention.

Of course, there are always puppies that are different, so while you can say "all these types of puppies do this" you still have to reserve the right to say "but that one little puppy there, he's different."

Men generalize things because they normally can be generalized. (At least, from a male perspective.)

As for this forum being in existence for the "maintenance of the product", once again, the men on here have a "generalized" position in comparison with men (and women too) on the other forums. If you want to say women from the FSU/CIS/etc., aren't to be traded-in or exchanged, well, take away the men's ability to do that. If there weren't 46,000 women with "looking for a nice man ages 18-80" profiles, men wouldn't be able to generalize them into a category. As soon as the basis for categorization is taken away, the category will be also.

Since not all the wives on here are in that category, I realize there are exceptions to the rule. However, you must rememeber, you are exceptions, not the majority. If you're coming from the same place and same type of scenario (K-1/3, etc.) then you're going to be placed in the same lot. If you don't like it, OK. Instead of throwing your "I don't like being generalized into the same "breed of dog" as every other FSU wife" into this forum, why don't you get on all the FSU/CIS websites full of the women's profiles and let them know they're messing up the stereotyping or profiling of FSU women here in the States. A simple: "Hey, by posting your profile on this site, you're creating an environment where we're viewed in the U.S. as "a breed of dog" that can be traded and maintained. Brought to the U.S. only to cook, clean, and provide pleasure for men. Please stop this now, and let's restore our stereotype in the U.S. as strong and hearty women that drink, smoke, work in factories and have 12 kids each."

It is what it is. We all know what's up. Convincing the rest of the U.S. is going to be a little more difficult.

Oh, and by the way. The guys that are hitting on you that are "respecting you" as a pretty girl, interesting person, and talented journalist first.... they may not say it to you, but what they're saying to their buddies is "dude, I work with this smokin-hot Russian chick. Her husband's some kind of douche, he just brought her here from some mail-order bride site, I'm working on her, so when I get the chance... I'm gonnna..." See, the flip-side of that generalization is also there. The husbands of all you FSU wives are also categorized. It's usually that we're either very rich or, uh hum, "packin"..... I guess I'm lucky cause I have no money!

[Galina 0]

As for this forum being in existence for the "maintenance of the product", once again, the men on here have a "generalized" position in comparison with men (and women too) on the other forums. If you want to say women from the FSU/CIS/etc., aren't to be traded-in or exchanged, well, take away the men's ability to do that. If there weren't 46,000 women with "looking for a nice man ages 18-80" profiles, men wouldn't be able to generalize them into a category. As soon as the basis for categorization is taken away, the category will be also.

So the whole "maintenance-breed-of-dog" attitude to a human being doesn't scratch your nerve even a little, right? Just wanted to make it clear for myself...

Since not all the wives on here are in that category, I realize there are exceptions to the rule. However, you must rememeber, you are exceptions, not the majority. If you're coming from the same place and same type of scenario (K-1/3, etc.) then you're going to be placed in the same lot. If you don't like it, OK. Instead of throwing your "I don't like being generalized into the same "breed of dog" as every other FSU wife" into this forum, why don't you get on all the FSU/CIS websites full of the women's profiles and let them know they're messing up the stereotyping or profiling of FSU women here in the States. A simple: "Hey, by posting your profile on this site, you're creating an environment where we're viewed in the U.S. as "a breed of dog" that can be traded and maintained. Brought to the U.S. only to cook, clean, and provide pleasure for men. Please stop this now, and let's restore our stereotype in the U.S. as strong and hearty women that drink, smoke, work in factories and have 12 kids each."

Such a stereotype is a surprise for me!!! Where is that coming from? Cold War? Just again to clarify...

All in all, it's supply and demand rule. Since there are American "dudes" wanting a mindless cooking hotty, there will be a supply of it (as long as the economic situation in Russia is unstable, and women have to sell themselves for a better future for them and kids). Stop dragging us here and we'll stop putting our pictures online!

Oh, and by the way. The guys that are hitting on you that are "respecting you" as a pretty girl, interesting person, and talented journalist first.... they may not say it to you, but what they're saying to their buddies is "dude, I work with this smokin-hot Russian chick. Her husband's some kind of douche, he just brought her here from some mail-order bride site, I'm working on her, so when I get the chance... I'm gonnna..." See, the flip-side of that generalization is also there. The husbands of all you FSU wives are also categorized. It's usually that we're either very rich or, uh hum, "packin"..... I guess I'm lucky cause I have no money!

Thanks for smokin-hot. But everything else is humiliating a little. It's like you don't give me much credit smarts-wise. Those were all different men I was talking about. Our family's friends like talking to me, my professors and editors think I am professionally good, and the last person hitting at me had a PhD in Psychology (so I don't think he'd talk in such a tone) and never even got to know that I was married or Russian... If I decide to flirt I usually don't tell them such stuff. See, there is a difference between professional and sexual attention and respect... And I prefer to keep it all separately.

I would never waste a split second of my time or attention to a man who'd dare speak about me in such a tone to his buddies (although I know you guys all do that, but even this can be done differently)! And since you are so sure that's exactly what men say about such wifes and such husbands you apparently have some experience in such talks... Well...

Let me guess... Bengals fan? Just one more category...

[Blues Fairy 0]

Very interesting discussion, and in tune with my current concerns.

I was thinking of ways to ensure she feels free and comfortable. Giving her about the same money per month/week she makes working back home until she can work here seemed like a logical start. This would allow her to live with the same financial freedoms she did back home. Am I terribly wrong in this thought?

I honestly would like some russian women input on this question.

My man and I haven't really discussed the money question yet (we better hurry!) but I can say that for me, the concept of financial dependence is very uncomfortable. I've been 100% self-reliant since the age of 17 (I'm 32 now) and I'm unused to taking money from anyone. Finding a job as soon as I arrive to the US seems like an obvious way to go. But I understand U.S. employers are very reluctant to give long-enough maternity leaves and I don't want to delay having kids. Therefore, some form of financial dependence is unavoidable and working out the money problem is a big challenge. I don't know how to tackle it; waiting for fresh ideas from my future husband. But two things I'm sure of, 1) my spending habits will HAVE to change somehow, some way - and 2) my degree of emotional comfort depends equally on my man's good sense and on my own ability to handle my insecurities. "Fait ce que tu dois, advienne que pourra." ©

Re "FSU wives": Galina, I think you slightly overestimate the derogatory tone on this forum. Excessive political correctness would be boring indeed! I don't mind being generalized a bit, in a good way. Yes I am a catch, and I am from FSU - but does that automatically make me a trophy wife?

[russ 1]

Very interesting discussion, and in tune with my current concerns.

But I understand U.S. employers are very reluctant to give long-enough maternity leaves and I don't want to delay having kids.

Marriage can take a lot out of you in the first year. I'm not saying wait to have kids, but starting so fast seems a bit ambitious to me.

Re "FSU wives": Galina, I think you slightly overestimate the derogatory tone on this forum. Excessive political correctness would be boring indeed! I don't mind being generalized a bit, in a good way. Yes I am a catch, and I am from FSU - but does that automatically make me a trophy wife?

How do I become a trophy husband?

[Galina 0]

Very interesting discussion, and in tune with my current concerns.

My man and I haven't really discussed the money question yet (we better hurry!) but I can say that for me, the concept of financial dependence is very uncomfortable. I've been 100% self-reliant since the age of 17 (I'm 32 now) and I'm unused to taking money from anyone. Finding a job as soon as I arrive to the US seems like an obvious way to go. But I understand U.S. employers are very reluctant to give long-enough maternity leaves and I don't want to delay having kids. Therefore, some form of financial dependence is unavoidable and working out the money problem is a big challenge. I don't know how to tackle it; waiting for fresh ideas from my future husband. But two things I'm sure of, 1) my spending habits will HAVE to change somehow, some way - and 2) my degree of emotional comfort depends equally on my man's good sense and on my own ability to handle my insecurities. "Fait ce que tu dois, advienne que pourra." ©

Re "FSU wives": Galina, I think you slightly overestimate the derogatory tone on this forum. Excessive political correctness would be boring indeed! I don't mind being generalized a bit, in a good way. Yes I am a catch, and I am from FSU - but does that automatically make me a trophy wife?

That depends how you feel about it. If you feel like a trophy wife, than you are a trophy wife! As simple as that ! If you like it, enjoy! I don't mind it either every once in a while but only when showing me off doesn't conflict with my own life and interests (and comes with new Tiffany, of course! )

Being a trophy wife is boring, been there - done that. It was boring for me even when I was 18. But it's almost inevitable here, since we are all such a great catch (according to Slim, at least) So I did my best to stop it in my family now (well, almost). I much prefer "showing myself off" and don't need any help with it.

Emotional comfort is a big problem, believe me you can't imagine the palette of new feelings you will get when you come and settle down here! I am saying this as a psychologist and from my first-hand experience. So best of luck, but I am telling you, it's not gonna be easy!

[Galina 0]

How do I become a trophy husband?

Let's see... You'll have to divorce me, hit the gym every day for like a month, get ripped and move to Manhattan. There you'll have to get yourself on the VIP list of all hippest places and private parties and it's not easy for a guy. But the most difficult part - with your charms you'll find something old and diamonded relatively quickly - imagine sleeping with it! Yak! Sickening to even imagine you, me dearest, in big sweaty palms of some huge wrinkled oil queen!!!

How about I make millions on my book, that'll become best-best-best-seller ever and make you My trophy husband? You'll be wearing Armani, driving Ferrari and be on my hand on all red carpets in the world!

How about that?

[russ 1]

We were on a red carpet last month. I have pictures.

I think that being a trophy wife requires your husband to be substaintially older, uglier, and wealthier.

Being of the same age, education, and physique -- probably does not qualify.

You'll be wearing Armani, driving Ferrari and be on my hand on all red carpets in the world!

How about that?

I think that the age difference is crital to the definition.

I was at a convention of owners of Cadillac dealerships at the Naples Ritz-Carleton last year. The 70 year old millionaires 22 year old wives would qualify as "tropy wives."

Anna Nicole Smith was a prime example.

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn'][/size]

a wife who is an attractive young woman; seldom the first wife of an affluent older man;

[akdiver 3]

Very interesting discussion, and in tune with my current concerns.

But I understand U.S. employers are very reluctant to give long-enough maternity leaves and I don't want to delay having kids.

Marriage can take a lot out of you in the first year. I'm not saying wait to have kids, but starting so fast seems a bit ambitious to me.

I double or triple this. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that it is foolish for ANY couple to have kids within their first two, if not three, years together. But hey, people do what they want. (:

Cheers!

AKDiver

[Galina 0]

Very interesting discussion, and in tune with my current concerns.

But I understand U.S. employers are very reluctant to give long-enough maternity leaves and I don't want to delay having kids.

Marriage can take a lot out of you in the first year. I'm not saying wait to have kids, but starting so fast seems a bit ambitious to me.

I double or triple this. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that it is foolish for ANY couple to have kids within their first two, if not three, years together.

No doubt about that!

[akdiver 3]

I was at a convention of owners of Cadillac dealerships at the Naples Ritz-Carleton last year. The 70 year old millionaires 22 year old wives would qualify as "tropy wives."Anna Nicole Smith was a prime example.

...of a blonde, bimbo ####### perhaps. I certainly would not view her as any kind of trophy. Much like Marilyn Monroe or Pam Anderson. I just do not see the appeal. They just seem so......typical. Nothing unique, interesting, or special about them at all. Cheap blondes are a dime a dozen. I wouldn't even say they are CUTE, let alone trophies. But hey, that's just me (:

Cheers!

AKDiver

Edited May 14, 2007 by akdiver

[Voyageur27 0]

Damn Galina!

I am sorry that this rant has gone on for 5 pages, since I posted about my "FSU Wife". I was the culprit, I admit it. Good lord, I am anything but racist when it comes to my wonderful wife and certainly did not mean anything by this. If you took offense to this I am sorry, but I have never heard this term ever be called racist before. TurboGuy and I are long-time posters on other Russian-American relationship forums and I can never remember anything like this being said about that term.

I have read your posts and although I am sensitive to your predicament, i think you are being a bit too sensitive on the trophy wife thing. There are allot worse things to be.

I do admit that women "from your area of the world" do tend to stick out in the American Woman crowd. No arguments there. There is a huge amount of adjustments that you have to live through when you arrive here, I can vouch for that first hand. It takes a strong woman (and a strong man and relationship) to get through this ordeal.

Slim was also correct in that the stereotype husband of a FSU woman (I am too lazy to re-type the Politically Correct version mentioned earlier) is one of a controlling loser who can't get an American Woman, so he has to find a wife by traveling to some impoverished country to offer her sanction in this American paradise.

I just wanted to set the record straight. I hope all works out for you.