Violence Against Women Act and me

[Blues Fairy 0]

For most of us, it meant work was not an option for at least 6 months. After that, finding a job can be tough, with no US work experience, credit history, etc...

Galina is in school now getting a Master's degree. Tuition is cheap here in FL, about $3,000/year. A degree here should make it much easier for her to find a better job. It is possible to start school immediately, and this can make it easier to get a better job (more from networking, than anything else)

Good for you guys! May I ask who covers Galina's school and other expenses?

I already have an MA from a US school, so I won't have to invest in education again (unless I feel like it). My degree is not tech but I've worked in IT industry for 7 years and qualify for 50K-70K jobs immediately judging by some US job sites.

Now, I'm wondering how much would be the average cost of pregnancy and the baby's first 6-8 months in, say, North Carolina? :-)

[akdiver 3]

Now, I'm wondering how much would be the average cost of pregnancy and the baby's first 6-8 months in, say, North Carolina? :-)

If you're planning to take unpaid time off from work from a 50K+ job, quite a bit (: To get a fair cost, you have to figure this into things.

If you do not have health insurance, quite a bit more (:

Friends who have recently successfully intermingled their DNA have told me that even with insurance, total related medical bills can hit $10K, unless there is an out of pocket max that puts an end to the money bleeding first, and this is for a "normal" pregnancy. In other words, whatever your out of pocket max is on your insurance policy, count on hitting it. Figure in a bit more for various things that will not be covered for one reason or another. Once you're home with your new human organism, I dunno. If you go crazy buying baby ####### that is not really needed, you can blow quite a wad. Save some cash by buying used - the thrift store is your friend. So are garage sales. Then you have daily consumables, diapers and food. I recommend buying new for these, but if you're really on a budget, you can go with a litterbox and a well-engineered baby crib. From what I hear, you can be going through what, 4+ diapers per day to start? I'm sure a quick Google can give you a better estimate of diaper economics. Probably for food too. Also, your water bill will go up (if it is metered) and odds are good your electrical bill will go up too (washing all those brand new, fashionable baby clothes you could have saved a lot of money on had you bought used).

Don't forget to add the emotional cost for you, the sperm donor, your friends, and anyone else in your social circle. Everyone will pay a price of some kind.

In any event, it can be quite a pretty penny. It's a shame people don't give more thought to this before deciding to breed. Kudos to you for thinking ahead!!

Cheers!

AKDiver

Edited May 17, 2007 by akdiver

[Blues Fairy 0]

My husband isn't working, even part time, because he will start studying in Septemebr and considers it a much better investment of the money we don't have. He also considers my 31K a year to be enough to cover all the expenses. He's aware of the fact that the rent alone eats half of this paycheck, but he doesn't seem to care much. <skip>

I told my husband that maybe it's time for him to at least start looking for work, and I won't even be too mad if he decides to only work part time. My request made him upset, because how come he doesn't get any time off from work at all? He was planning to only start looking for work in June, and now I messed up all his plans

Jewel12, thanks for sharing. You seem very mature and responsible and I hope you'll find a way to work this out soon. :-)

Forgive me for asking a personal question, but how old is your husband?..

[Blues Fairy 0]

If you're planning to take unpaid time off from work from a 50K+ job, quite a bit (: To get a fair cost, you have to figure this into things.

Wait, wait, let's not figure this into things. Very few "typical FSU wives" will get a 50K job and I may not as well, who knows. But let's say baby will cost me 15К-20К for 15 (9+6) months, plus my own expenses. Now, a typical US one-income family (say Russ and Galya) have no problem covering her expenses and 3К tuition for 2(?) years. My fiance has a decent salary and I have savings and a US degree. So... where's the extreme challenge? Am I missing something?

[Milenka 0]

He will be fine. Try dice.com to start looking around. The bigger problem is getting paid as much as you are worth. There is unlimited work in every state in the US below $50/hour with a Computer Science degree. $75/hr or $110,000/year is typical here in FL.

I do IT work in the south, it is just as good as the rest of the country.

With computer work, I would be happy to help him out, and I know several Russian-speaking computer guys in the US.

Where do you live, and what type of programming does he do? The market for Oracle and SAP tends to be the best (highest paying). There is a good market for Java still. Software development work exists just about everywhere. San Fran, Boston, LA, RDU, Dallas and NYC are the biggest markets. If he doesn't mind traveling, the pay can be pretty good (~$150/hour), which is worth being away from home Monday to Thursday a few months out of the year.

My fiance is a computer programmer, do you guys think he will be able to find a job rather quickly? He is planning to go through JFK to at least try and get the EAD right away...

Depends entirely on where you live. In Alaska? Sure. In California? Much harder. in Mississippi? Do they even have computers down there?

Cheers!

AKDiver

Right now I live in Poland, but we are PLANNING on living in LA (I grew up there) But I also have realtives in Florida (in Miami), so we might live there. still trying to decide. He wouldn't mind traveling for sure, especially not for such a salary. So far he mainly worked with C++, but he also knows HTML, Win32 API, Windows programming, MS Visual C++, C# and JAVA languages. Now he is working has a project manager in the IT department of a bank in Moscow. I will take a look at the site you mentioned. I don't know anyone who works with computers in the US, so we appreciate any help. Thanks Milena.

Edited May 17, 2007 by Milenka

[slim 1,525]

Just wondering, how many of this thread's posters' wives contribute to family income, and how significantly?

I've been reading VJ for some months now and I see that a fair share of wives start or will start working eventually, but it's my impression that their initial post-arrival time is covered by their husbands, more or less. Sometimes that includes education, where necessary. Am I to understand that all these husbands are immensely rich?

My wife contributes nothing to the family income right now. She came here with $100 (left-over from the money I sent her to get here) and her mother sent us $600 for our wedding gift. Within the first week we incurred several hundred dollars in new debt (girly stuff she needed; cosmetics, hair-care products, food for her (I like pizza and hamburgers... she likes soup/salad/fruits) and since it was getting colder, the heat went up.... way up! So my gas bill rose significantly as well.) and over the next couple of months we incurred several more thousand in new costs; phone bills (cell phone and cards to Russia) food, etc., that I wouldn't have needed by myself.

It's all part of it, and I expected to spend more money after her arrival. Simply, two people in a household is going to cost more than just one. Without one working, it's very difficult to make it on a meager salary. I'm an hourly-wage earner in a manufacturing setting. I make appx. $500/week and it's very difficult to pay all the bills by myself. I cover our bills OK, but she has to suck it up when it comes to going out and doing things. I've been working a $#itload of overtime lately, so that's helped us out some, but with one person working and two people spending, it makes it difficult. Add a child in there, and it's going to be even harder. The main thing to consider is not how much money someone earns or has saved up, it's how much the expenses are going to be. If you're going to be living in a house owned by your spouse (paid off) and driving a car (paid off) with only insurance, utilities and groceries as your monthly income, you'll be fine. But, the average American household has WAY more debt than that.

To sum up: I'm not immensely rich, but my wife has given up an immense amount of activity and comforts to be "making it" here with me. She's even said "how come you work all the time and we never have extra money? I see here in America it's normal for people to always work all the time and never have extra." The good thing is, that's followed by a "we will not do that. When I work, we'll use our money together to have no more bills and to save for what we want to do. We're not going to work for nothing." The biggest part of that for us is to not have kids right away. It's just financially impossible right now. For you, it may be possible. Just crunch the numbers.

So, as you can tell, I'm very mad, I think it's not fair, but I have no other choice but to look for another second job or for a full time job that pays better.

You do have a choice, you can kick your husband's lazy @$$ and make him get a job!!!!! If he won't contribute, you can find a man that will!

It's amazing to me that any woman would want to be married to a man that would like to do nothing more than sit around and play video games while contributing nothing to the household, living off the hard work of his wife. And he has children by another woman? Let me guess, she (the ex) wouldn't pay for him to play video games, so it didn't work out for them, and now he has to pay child support, most of which is paid for by you because you're the only one responsible with money?

Jewel, I don't want to get too deep into your personal business here, but there's an English word that you may want to look up....

LOSER

I don't know your husband personally, and I'm not saying I know exactly what's going on, but there's a pattern in development here: Find chick, take everything possible from her, knock her up so she has to keep giving me her stuff and/or supporting my lazy @$$, and when she finally gets fed up and/or realizes I'm a loser... find new chick to pull same scam on.

Nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand. And by all means, don't get a second job! Pay the rent, your car, etc., and don't give him $#!^. Get whatever you can in your name (only your name) now, and get that other bank account. Use one for "joint bills", rent, utilities, household stuff, etc., and the other for "your bills", car, your credit card (in your name) and any money left over. DO NOT GET PREGNANT!!!!!!!!! Also, you can change your tax status (on the W-4 at work) because you're the only one working and you're supporting your spouse. Take that extra loot and start stockpiling it in your bank account.

Good luck with this Jewel. It's good that you shared this. Sometimes it's hard to see things for what they are without looking at them through someone else's eyes. We get so caught up in our own relationships that we excuse something that would be inexcusable for a friend of ours or for someone we know. Take a step back, and really evaluate what you're doing, and what the results are going to be. I hope he just wanted some time off, or needed a break from working. But if you don't think that's what he's doing, and if he can't "step up and take responsibility" for his family, then he doesn't need to be family any more. If he's not willing to support his own children, his flesh and blood, where do you think you're going to be in five years?

Sincerely.... Good Luck!!! Please come back here if you need people to talk to about this. (My sister's been in a similar situation for about 8 years, and is just now going in the right direction.) Once again, I hope he's just taking a break, but if you can honestly say that's not it, we're here to help.

[akdiver 3]

If you're planning to take unpaid time off from work from a 50K+ job, quite a bit (: To get a fair cost, you have to figure this into things.

Wait, wait, let's not figure this into things. Very few "typical FSU wives" will get a 50K job and I may not as well, who knows. But let's say baby will cost me 15К-20К for 15 (9+6) months, plus my own expenses. Now, a typical US one-income family (say Russ and Galya) have no problem covering her expenses and 3К tuition for 2(?) years. My fiance has a decent salary and I have savings and a US degree. So... where's the extreme challenge? Am I missing something?

I dunno..but i think I am missing your point. Any time you have a large expense (in this case, $15-$20K by your estimate), a "typical" US family is going to have a challenge. Median household income was $46,326 in 2005 (http://www.whitehouse.gov/fsbr/income.html). Given the high consumption and low savings rate of this typical family (which is likely to be 2-income, but leave that aside for a moment), it's safe to say that it is probably that it probably CANNOT absorb such a hit so easily.

Even families that are a lot better off might have an issue. I can tell you that for us, we make a whole lot more than that. However, if my wife were to quit her job the first thing that would happen is that we would lose our health insurance (or use COBRA to pay some $15,000/year to keep it). Then, our gross income would take a 25 to 30% hit (depending on how you figure it). We'd still be well above that median of $46K. Even so, many of the most expensive bills would stay the same (retirement savings, car payments, house payments, student loan payments, car & house insurance), while others would likely go up (electricity, gas, medical, etc). Then completely new categories of spending would come into being (baby, childcare, etc.). Overall, it's pretty clear that there would be a serious squeeze. Yeah, we could cut retirement savings and "get by" OK (certainly better than some others), but cutting retirement saving is a boneheaded, last resort move in my book. FAR FAR better to try to save up for this expense (like saving up for any other kind of expense really), or try to cut other expenses (sell both cars, buy a beater, eliminate cable TV, go back to dialup, etc.), which is an unpleasant experience that many people are not interested in.

Sounds like you have a good savings and can absorb the hit. That's great. You're better off than most, that's for sure. However, I think you are fooling yourself excluding the opportunity cost from not working, whether you're talking about a $50K/year job or a $20K/year job. Economically, you HAVE to add that as a cost.

Cheers!

AKDiver

[Chuckles 0]

Having kids is a BIG sacrifice. If you are more interested in money then family, then perhaps it is not for you. Not only do you take a money hit (such as delaying retirement like was suggested) you lose a major portion of your free time. Things like cable and personal vacations are really not an issue since that will all go away. It is for some people and not for others. I would think this is pretty much common knowledge for the reasonably educated person though.

[akdiver 3]

Having kids is a BIG sacrifice. If you are more interested in money then family, then perhaps it is not for you. Not only do you take a money hit (such as delaying retirement like was suggested) you lose a major portion of your free time. Things like cable and personal vacations are really not an issue since that will all go away. It is for some people and not for others. I would think this is pretty much common knowledge for the reasonably educated person though.

All very true, and I completely agree.

However, there is also something to be said for planning ahead and being strategic about what one does (:

Cheers!

AKDiver

[Galina 0]

If you're planning to take unpaid time off from work from a 50K+ job, quite a bit (: To get a fair cost, you have to figure this into things.

Wait, wait, let's not figure this into things. Very few "typical FSU wives" will get a 50K job and I may not as well, who knows. But let's say baby will cost me 15К-20К for 15 (9+6) months, plus my own expenses. Now, a typical US one-income family (say Russ and Galya) have no problem covering her expenses and 3К tuition for 2(?) years. My fiance has a decent salary and I have savings and a US degree. So... where's the extreme challenge? Am I missing something?

I wouldn't call us a typical one-income family...

We don't have credit cards, both cars are paid for (he is driving a 2002 Audi S4, being one of the safest cars in business - insurance is cheap, I drive a 1992 Toyota Celica, being the oldest car in Tampa Bay Area - insurance is cheap again) Both of them are good on gas mileage and we live downtown, so we don't really drive too often.

The rent is sort of high, but it wasn't my idea to live in something that huge (it's a three-level loft). He makes enough to cover rent, and we are planning on buying it, the mortgage will be cheaper to pay.

My expenses are not that high, like I said, I buy cosmetics at CVS and clothes at TJMaxx and Ross, so it's not really that much.

Food "eats" a lot of income, 'cause we both like it tasty and I am on the permanent low-carb diet, so it's all meat, fish and veggies for me (not the cheapest line in the supermarket )

He likes junky food every once in a while when we eat home but he drinks his Sam Adams and Heineken, again, not the cheapest stuff either!

We both like to go out, to eat and to drink, and he loves posh restaurants, that's another line of spending.

About my tuition:

I plan to be a champ and finish this in a year (which is very possible with me not working), Russ pays my tuition but comparing to many schools it's not expensive (so it'll be 3K total).

That's how we live. If it can be of any help to you or anybody...

But a baby is a challenge, my friend in CA just gave birth to a boy in January. They are a one-income family, but they have three kids and San Diego is not the cheapest place to live, so it is tough...

Anyhow, I'd have a baby right away if I could. Apparently, Russ doesn't want it... Children are the best thing that can happen to a woman, in my opinion!

Best luck to you, Blues Fairy!

[Galina 0]

For most of us, it meant work was not an option for at least 6 months. After that, finding a job can be tough, with no US work experience, credit history, etc...

Galina is in school now getting a Master's degree. Tuition is cheap here in FL, about $3,000/year. A degree here should make it much easier for her to find a better job. It is possible to start school immediately, and this can make it easier to get a better job (more from networking, than anything else)

Good for you guys! May I ask who covers Galina's school and other expenses?

I'd be more than happy to cover this stuff myself and I know I could but he doesn't want me to work at all. I'd settle for some bar tending or something like this to just be able to contribute to the income at least a little, to feel more equal with him but he won't let me. And I don't feel like making a big deal out of it, like fight about it with him or something, that would be just ridiculous since most people consider it great to be able not to work... I just hope he changes his mind at some point, maybe when I get the degree.

[Nancy2015 2]

He also seemed surprised that I can't write a check to his ex for child support

And nor should you! I hope you never ever do this and let him off the hook so easily.

Actually based on California Community Property laws, the ex spouse is entitled to all the separate property of Jewel's husband, and all the joint property owned by Jewel with her husband. Thus she can levy on those assets. To protect yourself you must open up a separate bank account and keep any property ownership only in your name. Although it is still technically community property the ex-spouse can't levy upon it without showing intent to defraud which is a higher standard. Just some thoughts from my California Community Property class - not intended to be legal advise.

Jeepers creepers... Well, the ex doesn't reside in California, nor did they get divorced in California, but we do, so I don't know what to expect. One thing that helps is that we don't own any property, and the ex is actually a very nice lady, and the support will be over soon, cause the kid will be graduating high school. But really, I had no idea about all that, so thanks for sharing!

Good luck with this Jewel. It's good that you shared this. Sometimes it's hard to see things for what they are without looking at them through someone else's eyes. We get so caught up in our own relationships that we excuse something that would be inexcusable for a friend of ours or for someone we know. Take a step back, and really evaluate what you're doing, and what the results are going to be. I hope he just wanted some time off, or needed a break from working. But if you don't think that's what he's doing, and if he can't "step up and take responsibility" for his family, then he doesn't need to be family any more. If he's not willing to support his own children, his flesh and blood, where do you think you're going to be in five years?

Sincerely.... Good Luck!!! Please come back here if you need people to talk to about this. (My sister's been in a similar situation for about 8 years, and is just now going in the right direction.) Once again, I hope he's just taking a break, but if you can honestly say that's not it, we're here to help.

Slim, thank you so very much for the input and support, I really really appreciate it! I have faith in my husband - he's been doing a lot for us, and I know he is really taking a break and just wants to look for a different job that pays better, but I got mad, because I thought it wasn't the right time to do it. We'll see what happens

[Galina 0]

My husband didn't want me to work at all, and still doesn't now, even part time, encouraging me to study. He considers it a solid investment in future, hoping that I will be bringing fatter share of bacon to the table when I am done with the degree.

Personally, I view this as a deficient strategy. All the school in the world will not teach you about the nuances and social norms of operating in an American workplace. Better to get some of these skills in a job that doesn't matter so much, rather than waiting to acquire them in one that does.

I think the same mistake is made by parents who do not allow their children to get jobs. I know some people who never had a job until after they graduated from college. As someone who has worked at one job or another from a very early age, I just cannot imagine what that must be like. Personally, I think one should be required to work at least 1000 hours in a fast food, retail, or other menial job, as a requirement for graduation from high school. This will provide basic workplace skills as well as teach children how crappy crappy can be, and inspire them to do better (:

Please note that this is not a statement on YOU or whatever you may know or not know. It's a general statement about the difficulty of adapting to a new workplace culture, no matter who the person is, and no matter what that culture may be. I know you worked in Russia, but I also have to believe that social norms in the workplace are different in different cultures (:

Cheers!

AKDiver

You are right, if one knows how to survive with a couple of colleagues and a boss around the deep-fryer, he'll know how to survive around a water-cooler in a huge corporation or around anything else. It's a very necessary basic knowledge of survival that they should teach in high school. And the work ethics and social norms are really different, that's true. I had a chance to face it here and loved it here much more. I waited my share of tables, sold my share of touristy gifts, even worked construction for a while and did a couple more scary jobs. So you are perfectly correct, sir!

[Satellite 1]

Nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand. And by all means, don't get a second job! Pay the rent, your car, etc., and don't give him $#!^. Get whatever you can in your name (only your name) now, and get that other bank account. Use one for "joint bills", rent, utilities, household stuff, etc., and the other for "your bills", car, your credit card (in your name) and any money left over. DO NOT GET PREGNANT!!!!!!!!! Also, you can change your tax status (on the W-4 at work) because you're the only one working and you're supporting your spouse. Take that extra loot and start stockpiling it in your bank account.

If your goal is to keep the current husband from getting a benefit from your wages placing the property and assets in your own name won't help much unless you get written consent of bilateral intent to show that the property was meant to be your separate property. Otherwise we have a special community property presumption upon divorce, with equal division at divorce. Perhaps it works otherwise in traditional common law property states such as Ohio, but it won't fly in California.

Jeepers creepers... Well, the ex doesn't reside in California, nor did they get divorced in California, but we do, so I don't know what to expect. One thing that helps is that we don't own any property, and the ex is actually a very nice lady, and the support will be over soon, cause the kid will be graduating high school. But really, I had no idea about all that, so thanks for sharing!

Not sure how it works with a foreign state divorce. I know California and all other states do give full faith credit to divorce decrees obtained out of states. What I talked about before is simply a remedy that someone who wants to collect on unpaid child support can do in California.

[Blues Fairy 0]

You're better off than most, that's for sure. However, I think you are fooling yourself excluding the opportunity cost from not working, whether you're talking about a $50K/year job or a $20K/year job. Economically, you HAVE to add that as a cost.

AK, thanks for your perspective, it's very valuable. Still you seem to take it for granted that money is my priority and I will want to start working immediately after I get EAD. But I'm thinking, since I don't have to invest in additional education, need to wait for EAD anyway, and will be decently provided for by my future husband, why not extend this break for a couple of years to start and care for my new family? When I don't go to office every day, my expenses tend to be very minimal. And a kid is something far more important to me than fancy cars or shoes or vacations. When the kid is ready for daycare I can resume career, with new motivation. Maybe it will make more sense than starting a full-time job immediately, taking a 12-weeks leave after a year and sending a 2-month-old to day care. Besides, my fiance is turning 38 and he says if we are to have a kid or two, we better start early so we'll be still working when they go to college.

How is this a bad strategic plan?

I wouldn't call us a typical one-income family...

You and I are actually quite alike, from what I see. :-) Thanks for good wishes, and best of luck to you too!

BTW I drive a 1998 Honda Civic in Moscow but I just LOVE old Celicas. :-)