Hamas' Jihad Mouse

[rclouse 0]

Shocking. I mean what kind of people would indoctrinate innocent impressionable young children with teachings of hatred and violence against the "enemy" ?

I don't know, who?

[Fandango 1,440]

LisaD -- you almost got it right -- "WOW it's horrible." This is the absolute truth. But please don't try to put words in my mouth -- I never said one was "worse" than the other. I simply asked "What kind of people would do this to their kids," and I showed the other side of the same coin. Unfortunately, it prompted an all-too-predictable response. A lot of people don't want to face the ugly truth -- that when it comes to indoctrinating children with the glorification of violence and the militarization of hate, well.... Israelis are no innocent angels -- they do the same thing.

Now do *all* Israelis or Palestinians take part this kind of behavior ? Of course not. There are many reasonable folks on each side who are rightfully horrified at such incidents involving kids.

BTW -- as always, it's interesting to note the source of any story. This one comes from an organization called "Palestinian Media Watch," which is hardly the Edward R. Murrow of pro-Israeli media. In fact, Palestinian Media Watch is a well-known right-wing propaganda site run by a certain Itamar Marcus.

Now, who is this guy ? He's a radical Zionist extremist and illegal settler, notorious for his racist beliefs that Palestinians should be forced off their own lands in order to make way for illegal Jewish colonies. Now what people need to understand is -- just living in an illegal settlement in the occupied Palestinian territories is considered a war crime by the International Criminal Court -- it is a serious violation of the 4th Geneva Convention of 1949. So this makes him a war criminal.

Just the kind of "source" we've come to expect from Western Resistance.com and FrontPage Magazine and LittleGreenFootballs....

But the point is, you don't have to come out and say that verbatim. Your pictures speak of 'countering' the mouse...because why muddy the waters at all? We weren't talking about anything other than this mouse...and here you come with your pictures which implies 'yeah but they're bad too!'.

And if I'm wrong, then please explain why you posted them? I say it's #######-for-tat. Because let's be honest...those pics did nothing to dimish the horror of this mouse and the mentality of that program. So explain to me why you posted them if not for that?

btw...did you get copyright authorization to repost those?

Oh, and regardless of where this vid came from....the video exists independent of PMR, so your point, is once again, moot.

Edited May 14, 2007 by LisaD

[mawilson 2,133]

A lot of people don't want to face the ugly truth -- that when it comes to indoctrinating children with the glorification of violence and the militarization of hate, well.... Israelis are no innocent angels -- they do the same thing.

Of course, it's not easy to find pictures of Israeli kids with machine guns or stones or

explosive belts strapped to their waists. All you could find were a couple of pictures

of kids painting WORDS on (smoke?) shells -- taken in a time of WAR, when Northern

Israel was being shelled by Hezbollah's rockets -- but even these are few and far

between, which is probably why you keep posting them over and over again.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Agree in general with the point WOM made - but not in comparison to "Hama-mouse". Both are pretty terrible on their own merits - without the need to use one as an excuse to say that the other is "worse".

As to the shells being "Smoke shells" - it seems to me that having kids joyfully writing on the sides of any live military hardware displays some disturbed pychology at work (however you look at it) - but then again I don't think anyone living in that situation can reasonably be described as "normal".

[mawilson 2,133]

As to the shells being "Smoke shells" - it seems to me that having kids joyfully writing on the sides of any live military hardware displays some disturbed pychology at work (however you look at it)

It was a message of love:

"To Nasrallah with love from Israel"

[deemabrouk 0]

Shocking. I mean what kind of people would indoctrinate innocent impressionable young children with teachings of hatred and violence against the "enemy" ?

good one .. regardless if they are Empty or not.. it's a conditioning !

Edited May 14, 2007 by deemabrouk

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Shocking. I mean what kind of people would indoctrinate innocent impressionable young children with teachings of hatred and violence against the "enemy" ?

Did anyone else notice that the actual turnout for this signing event must have sucked seeing that the same two gals are "dedicating" the ammo in all three pics. One could almost think that this is somewhat staged for the camera?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

But the point is, you don't have to come out and say that verbatim. Your pictures speak of 'countering' the mouse...because why muddy the waters at all? We weren't talking about anything other than this mouse...and here you come with your pictures which implies 'yeah but they're bad too!'.

And if I'm wrong, then please explain why you posted them? I say it's #######-for-tat. Because let's be honest...those pics did nothing to dimish the horror of this mouse and the mentality of that program. So explain to me why you posted them if not for that?

btw...did you get copyright authorization to repost those?

Oh, and regardless of where this vid came from....the video exists independent of PMR, so your point, is once again, moot.

Lisa -- you may respond to posts in any way you wish (within Ewok’s terms, of course.) You’re entitled to *your* opinions (and as everyone here should know, you spend an inordinate amount of time presenting them on this website, on just about every subject under the sun.)

But you have to accept that others are permitted the same privilege, and quite frankly there's just nothing you can do about it.

So I am free to post *my* opinion -- which is actually right *ON* the topic, as this thread is about people who indoctrinate their children. And I've already explained "why" I posted it, so I'm not sure why you're asking. I've stated clearly that in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, there is definitely a culture that uses propaganda and indoctrination in order to demonize the enemy. And this culture exists on *both* sides.

If you don’t want to hear the truth.... well, that’s too bad.

BTW I haven’t seen you charging into threads which discuss issues from the Palestinian point of view, demanding that no one present the Israeli side of the issue. LOL. So nice try, but no cigar.

And as for this video clip existing "independently" -- all the links that I’ve seen track right back to the Palestinian Media Watch as the source (note: it’s "PMW" -- not sure what your "PMR" is.) So if you actually find a clip that exists “independently,” as you claim, please post the link.

You should also notice the difference between PMW's synopsis, and the Associated Press and other mainstream media reports. All the "juiciest" stuff originates with -- surprise ! -- PMW.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Shocking. I mean what kind of people would indoctrinate innocent impressionable young children with teachings of hatred and violence against the "enemy" ?

I don't know, who?

Rclouse – I guess you must have missed it, but that photo has actually already been discussed in this forum. In short – it is an unsubstantiated IDF claim. Journalists who covered the story referred to it as “alleged." There are a number of unanswered questions about it.

If you need some shocking pics of incidents involving weapons and Palestinian children – ones that are of unquestionable authenticity – well, Associated Press can hook you up with the real deal.

(BTW.... I notice that LisaD has not popped in to scold you for being Off the Topic of the Mouse. )

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

A lot of people don't want to face the ugly truth -- that when it comes to indoctrinating children with the glorification of violence and the militarization of hate, well.... Israelis are no innocent angels -- they do the same thing.

Of course, it's not easy to find pictures of Israeli kids with machine guns or stones or

explosive belts strapped to their waists. All you could find were a couple of pictures

of kids painting WORDS on (smoke?) shells -- taken in a time of WAR, when Northern

Israel was being shelled by Hezbollah's rockets -- but even these are few and far

between, which is probably why you keep posting them over and over again.

MaWilson – That would be wishful thinking on your part. There are pics a-plenty -- don't you ever surf the net ?

Now of course you don't find shots of Israeli kids wearing crude suicide belts -- I mean, just think about it for a second. Israelis already have all the latest high-tech weaponry. What would they need suicide belts for ?

But it’s not at all hard to find pics of Israeli settlers’ children holding semi-automatic weapons (despite the IDF's penchant for smashing cameras of photographers who take photos of "forbidden" subjects.) If you'd ever been to Hebron, you would've seen stuff like this with your own eyes.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Agree in general with the point WOM made - but not in comparison to "Hama-mouse". Both are pretty terrible on their own merits - without the need to use one as an excuse to say that the other is "worse".

As to the shells being "Smoke shells" - it seems to me that having kids joyfully writing on the sides of any live military hardware displays some disturbed pychology at work (however you look at it) - but then again I don't think anyone living in that situation can reasonably be described as "normal".

Actually, I never said one was "worse" -- it was LisaD who *claimed* that I said that. Please read my post again for clarification.

My point is pretty much what you've just said -- that both sides take part in this type of indoctrination of children.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

And finally.... on to Charles’ claim that what the girls are signing are actually “smoke shells” and merely "defensive" weapons (not that it really makes any difference as to my point that this is an example of indoctrinating children.) But as it turns out, it's even more egregious than I thought. Here is the comment that you mention making before (from the previous thread):

Ammunition 20mm and larger is color-coded IAW MIL-STD 709C (see Tables F-2 and F-3). Figure F-5 shows typical markings for an artillery round of ammunition.

color.............Fed Std No 595....................Interpretation

Light green....34558 or 34449......Identifies screening or marking smoke ammunition.

Now you cited tables and figures, but you didn't bother to post your link. However, you included enough information that I decided to do a bit of cross-checking. And it seems that you either didn't understand what you cut and pasted, or you've been deliberately "blowing smoke."

It's the paint on the body of the shell that indicates its contents, not the color of the "tip." The girls in the pics are signing shells with brown bodies -- this signifies High Explosive (HE), not marking smoke. To identify a marking smoke round, the whole body would be painted light green, not just the "tip."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...-30-13/appf.htm

The colored "tips" are actually the fuses, which don't have anything to do with indicating the contents of the shell. Fuses use different color codes than the projectile's body.

The different colors on the fuses indicate the various types. Some go "boom" on contact, after being armed by the "setback" jolt of being fired from the gun. Others have a timer, which can be set to go off at a certain time after "setback." The time of flight is so repeatable, based on powder load and elevation of the tube, that the shell can be set to explode form 10 to 100 feet above the ground. (This produces more devastation to humans than to tanks and buildings.)

I haven't found a table yet which shows the various color codes for different fuse types, so I'm not sure if the shells the girls are signing are set for explosion on contact, or for a delayed explosion.

But what is most significant: all the projectiles in the photos are already set with fuses. Now, shells are transported without the fuse attached, for safety reasons, and fuses are kept separate until the shells are actually prepared for firing. Israel does not follow all of the procedures which the US military follows, but it is doubtful that this many rounds would be armed in advance unless a high-intensity barrage had actually been ordered.

Note also that the schoolgirls are right there among the soldiers.

Now imagine what would happen if an unguided rocket would have happened to land in this artillery position and ammo dump. Many of these girls (along with some soldiers as well) would have been killed instantly.

[Fandango 1,440]

But the point is, you don't have to come out and say that verbatim. Your pictures speak of 'countering' the mouse...because why muddy the waters at all? We weren't talking about anything other than this mouse...and here you come with your pictures which implies 'yeah but they're bad too!'.

And if I'm wrong, then please explain why you posted them? I say it's #######-for-tat. Because let's be honest...those pics did nothing to dimish the horror of this mouse and the mentality of that program. So explain to me why you posted them if not for that?

btw...did you get copyright authorization to repost those?

Oh, and regardless of where this vid came from....the video exists independent of PMR, so your point, is once again, moot.

Lisa -- you may respond to posts in any way you wish (within Ewok’s terms, of course.) You’re entitled to *your* opinions (and as everyone here should know, you spend an inordinate amount of time presenting them on this website, on just about every subject under the sun.)

But you have to accept that others are permitted the same privilege, and quite frankly there's just nothing you can do about it.

Erm, aren't we all here presenting our own opinions on everything under the sun? What an idiotic thing to say!

Yes, you are right...I present my own opinions! Radical concept, I know.

Btw, I never once told you not to post or express your opinion. So take off your defense shoulderpads and try to have a conversation...or just ignore me in future, mmmmmmmmmkay?

So I am free to post *my* opinion -- which is actually right *ON* the topic, as this thread is about people who indoctrinate their children. And I've already explained "why" I posted it, so I'm not sure why you're asking. I've stated clearly that in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, there is definitely a culture that uses propaganda and indoctrination in order to demonize the enemy. And this culture exists on *both* sides.

If you don’t want to hear the truth.... well, that’s too bad.

Your truth, my truth, or any other person's?

I never said these things only happen in Palestine. What I said was YOU SEEMED TO ME to be somehow 'excusing' this mouse by whipping out your 'oh they do it toooo! and here's pictures!' response. I found it odd, so I said so. Not even a 'yeah this is awful'...you just came in with a smug attitude and pictures which hey, you're free to post (you didn't answer about the copyright thing btw)...but for Westerners to not be disgusted at this kind of a mentality just seems very cold-blooded. I can't sit here and claim to be an authority on this awful situation with this feud that will never end...but I can say when I see a focked up situation, and that mouse and those kids singing those songs are focked up. And no amount of 'they did it too!' will diminish responsibility.

It doesn't work with kids when they get caught goofin around, and it shouldn't work as adults.

If you don't want to hear that, well that's too bad

BTW I haven’t seen you charging into threads which discuss issues from the Palestinian point of view, demanding that no one present the Israeli side of the issue. LOL. So nice try, but no cigar.

Try for what exactly?

And as for this video clip existing "independently" -- all the links that I’ve seen track right back to the Palestinian Media Watch as the source (note: it’s "PMW" -- not sure what your "PMR" is.) So if you actually find a clip that exists “independently,” as you claim, please post the link.

You should also notice the difference between PMW's synopsis, and the Associated Press and other mainstream media reports. All the "juiciest" stuff originates with -- surprise ! -- PMW.

We're correcting typos now? Come on, you're better than that, no?

PMW did not make the video. End of story.

[Fandango 1,440]

(BTW.... I notice that LisaD has not popped in to scold you for being Off the Topic of the Mouse. )

omG you've mentioned my name in like how many of the last posts?

I made a blanket statement that it was a shame it turned into '#######-for-tat'...you said it wasn't #######-for-tat, and I explained why I felt that way & asked for clarification. Of which you never answered.

I pointed your piccies out because you trotted them out like some golden goose to prove a point, even though you've already been corrected on those pictures in the past. Yet you still used them.

And do I think smoke shells are the same as the mouse? No, I don't.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Sooo WoM....... what do you think of Hamas' mouse? We already know how you feel about the Jews.