Supreme Court sides with Colorado baker who refused to make wedding cake for same-sex couple

[Dashinka 24,764]

35 minutes ago, bcking said:

I'm fine with that as long as "go buy your cake from someone who wants to make you a cake" doesn't put those people at a significant inconvenience compared to other people. For example, if they lived in a small town with one baker, and the next nearest baker for a cake is 100 miles away. I don't think it's fair to say "Well go drive 100 miles to find someone who wants to make your cake".

 

In Medicine you have the right to "fire" a patient if you disagree with them (For example a Pediatrician can choose not to care for a child if the parents refuse vaccinations). However, you need to be able to provide them with reasonable alternatives. Obviously healthcare is more important than baking, but I think the concept should still apply. If there is another baker within easy access that will serve them, then that's fine. 

 

As soon as you start allowing people to discriminate, and those discriminated against then have fewer or inferior options, then you start creating "Second class citizens", which I don't think is okay.

People discriminate every day every time they make any choice.  From what I understand, this baker did not refuse them a cake, but he did refuse to use his cake decorating talents for something he disagreed with religiously.  Take the cake and decorate it yourself.  As to your example, doesn't really apply here though since we are talking about Denver, but using it, where do you draw the line 100 miles, 200 miles, 1,000 miles?

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

People discriminate every day every time they make any choice.  From what I understand, this baker did not refuse them a cake, but he did refuse to use his cake decorating talents for something he disagreed with religiously.  Take the cake and decorate it yourself.  As to your example, doesn't really apply here though since we are talking about Denver, but using it, where do you draw the line 100 miles, 200 miles, 1,000 miles?

I wasn't speaking about this case specifically, more in general about discrimination and my opinion. I don't see it as a problem as long as it doesn't mean that certain groups of people suffer as "2nd class citizens". Yes in Denver I'm sure they could have found someone else, but not everyone lives in a city like Denver. 

 

The line is drawn wherever you would consider it an inconvenience leveled on a specific population purely due to discrimination. I'm not talking legally, I'm just giving my opinion. I'd say it's wrong if a certain type of couple seeking a cake have to travel an hour out of their way to find a baker willing to make them a cake, when there are plenty of bakers within a much closer distance. It would be no different if they were a straight couple and a baker only bakes for gay couples. If that straight couple has to go out of their way significantly to find an alternative, that is wrong. 

 

I don't actually know what the restrictions are in medicine when a doctor refuses a patient. I've only ever worked in a city where it isn't an issue (there is always someone who will see you). If you're the only doctor in a small town I don't believe you can refuse a patient based on a difference of opinion but I don't know if that is based on miles to the next doctor, or some other specific metric. 

[Dashinka 24,764]

52 minutes ago, bcking said:

I wasn't speaking about this case specifically, more in general about discrimination and my opinion. I don't see it as a problem as long as it doesn't mean that certain groups of people suffer as "2nd class citizens". Yes in Denver I'm sure they could have found someone else, but not everyone lives in a city like Denver. 

 

The line is drawn wherever you would consider it an inconvenience leveled on a specific population purely due to discrimination. I'm not talking legally, I'm just giving my opinion. I'd say it's wrong if a certain type of couple seeking a cake have to travel an hour out of their way to find a baker willing to make them a cake, when there are plenty of bakers within a much closer distance. It would be no different if they were a straight couple and a baker only bakes for gay couples. If that straight couple has to go out of their way significantly to find an alternative, that is wrong. 

 

I don't actually know what the restrictions are in medicine when a doctor refuses a patient. I've only ever worked in a city where it isn't an issue (there is always someone who will see you). If you're the only doctor in a small town I don't believe you can refuse a patient based on a difference of opinion but I don't know if that is based on miles to the next doctor, or some other specific metric. 

Do you really believe if this was the case, this issue ever would have surfaced?  If we want to discuss hypotheticals, what if one chose witchcraft as their religion and their high holiday is Halloween?  The baker in question would not make a Halloween cake either, so would that be the same if this worshipping witch had to drive hundreds of miles to get their cake?  I still don't think anyone should be forced in a fascist way to lend their talents to anyone.  When the government starts controlling peoples talent and art, we are really in trouble.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Bill & Katya

[bcking 3,157]

25 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Do you really believe if this was the case, this issue ever would have surfaced?  If we want to discuss hypotheticals, what if one chose witchcraft as their religion and their high holiday is Halloween?  The baker in question would not make a Halloween cake either, so would that be the same if this worshipping witch had to drive hundreds of miles to get their cake?  I still don't think anyone should be forced in a fascist way to lend their talents to anyone.  When the government starts controlling peoples talent and art, we are really in trouble.

If the Baker doesn't make a Halloween cake for ANYONE (regardless of their religion), then it doesn't matter. That is just a definition of the service the baker is providing. They provide wedding cakes, not Halloween cakes.

 

If the Baker would bake a Halloween cake for a Christian family, but not for your "Witch", then yes that is discrimination (based on "religion"). 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

37 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Do you really believe if this was the case, this issue ever would have surfaced?  If we want to discuss hypotheticals, what if one chose witchcraft as their religion and their high holiday is Halloween?  The baker in question would not make a Halloween cake either, so would that be the same if this worshipping witch had to drive hundreds of miles to get their cake?  I still don't think anyone should be forced in a fascist way to lend their talents to anyone.  When the government starts controlling peoples talent and art, we are really in trouble.

 

   Halloween is traditionally part of the Christian celebration of All Saints Day. 

[yuna628 9,711]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Halloween is traditionally part of the Christian celebration of All Saints Day. 

Not evangelical Christians that believe Halloween is evil and do not believe in All Saints Day or anything like that. As a kid I was never allowed to participate, nor could we put out any candy for others. We had to turn off all the lights and do something 'wholesome' like read the Bible by candlelight. Santa was also evil btw.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

Not evangelical Christians that believe Halloween is evil and do not believe in All Saints Day or anything like that. As a kid I was never allowed to participate, nor could we put out any candy for others. We had to turn off all the lights and do something 'wholesome' like read the Bible by candlelight. Santa was also evil btw.

 

     He still is!

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

24 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

     He still is!

No Santa is  cool. Its clowns  that are evil.

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

On 6/4/2018 at 6:21 PM, Neonred said:

I always thought the baker missed an opportunity.  I understand he had strong personal beliefs, but he should have offered to make that cake and quoted a price two or three times his usual charge.  If they are willing to pay, he does well.  If not, then there is no issue.

 

Maybe this just reflects on my lack of morals.

Or the baker’s integrity, a toss up