A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on. U.S. Customs took it without charging him with a crime.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

A 64-year-old Cleveland man is suing U.S. Customs and Border Protection after agents strip-searched him at an airport in October and took more than $58,000 in cash from him without charging him with any crime, according to a federal lawsuit filed this week in Ohio.

Customs agents seized the money through a process known as civil asset forfeiture, a law enforcement technique that allows authorities to take cash and property from people who are never convicted or even charged with a crime. The practice is widespread at the federal level. In 2017, federal authorities seized more than $2 billion in assets from people, a net loss similar in size to annual losses from residential burglaries in the United States.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/05/31/a-64-year-old-put-his-life-savings-in-his-carry-on-u-s-customs-took-it-without-charging-him-with-a-crime/?utm_term=.8699d2218149

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

25 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

A 64-year-old Cleveland man is suing U.S. Customs and Border Protection after agents strip-searched him at an airport in October and took more than $58,000 in cash from him without charging him with any crime, according to a federal lawsuit filed this week in Ohio.

Customs agents seized the money through a process known as civil asset forfeiture, a law enforcement technique that allows authorities to take cash and property from people who are never convicted or even charged with a crime. The practice is widespread at the federal level. In 2017, federal authorities seized more than $2 billion in assets from people, a net loss similar in size to annual losses from residential burglaries in the United States.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/05/31/a-64-year-old-put-his-life-savings-in-his-carry-on-u-s-customs-took-it-without-charging-him-with-a-crime/?utm_term=.8699d2218149

So wrong at every angle 

[yuna628 9,676]

There was already a thread on this in a different place last week, but as far as I could investigate... it's not clear if the man actually followed the law to begin with. And that seems to be at least some of the cause of his trouble, if he didn't that is. The CBP says there's no limit on the amount someone can carry out of the USA, however you need to file a FinCen105 informing them officially. Still, they did not charge him with a crime... but once they take it, it's pretty much a given you aren't going to see it again, and they'll make up whatever excuse they need to seize it.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

There was already a thread on this in a different place last week, but as far as I could investigate... it's not clear if the man actually followed the law to begin with. And that seems to be at least some of the cause of his trouble, if he didn't that is. The CBP says there's no limit on the amount someone can carry out of the USA, however you need to file a FinCen105 informing them officially. Still, they did not charge him with a crime... but once they take it, it's pretty much a given you aren't going to see it again, and they'll make up whatever excuse they need to seize it.

 

   Been there done that. The form is filed at customs when you exit (or enter) the USA for cash (or any monetary device).  Although the last time I crossed the border with an unsigned bank draft, the guy at customs said I didn't have to report it unless it was signed. Seems like a silly loop hole if true. I'm never sure those guys know what they are doing in the first place.

 

  Anyway you can carry any amount of cash on domestic flights, but I tend to agree, they saw his itinerary and his inability to answer and decided to take the cash. Legally they have no case though, and he's going to get it back, but people shouldn't have to go through this. Many countries, cash is king. When my wife goes to Russia, she always takes funds in cash. Nothing else is reliable in many places.  It's not uncommon, and  although that's a lot of cash, I think they could have got this guy an interpreter and got the answers they needed. 

 

 

[yuna628 9,676]

26 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Been there done that. The form is filed at customs when you exit (or enter) the USA for cash (or any monetary device).  Although the last time I crossed the border with an unsigned bank draft, the guy at customs said I didn't have to report it unless it was signed. Seems like a silly loop hole if true. I'm never sure those guys know what they are doing in the first place.

 

  Anyway you can carry any amount of cash on domestic flights, but I tend to agree, they saw his itinerary and his inability to answer and decided to take the cash. Legally they have no case though, and he's going to get it back, but people shouldn't have to go through this. Many countries, cash is king. When my wife goes to Russia, she always takes funds in cash. Nothing else is reliable in many places.  It's not uncommon, and  although that's a lot of cash, I think they could have got this guy an interpreter and got the answers they needed. 

 

 

I was discussing this case with my dad, and he wondered if this could apply to US citizens being stopped by police or even the CBP near the border or in any other random checkpoint area that might potentially be carrying large amounts of cash to casinos. Do they have the authority to stop someone flying from state to state with big amounts of cash if the TSA saw it on the scanner and flagged it as suspicious for no reason?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

I was discussing this case with my dad, and he wondered if this could apply to US citizens being stopped by police or even the CBP near the border or in any other random checkpoint area that might potentially be carrying large amounts of cash to casinos. Do they have the authority to stop someone flying from state to state with big amounts of cash if the TSA saw it on the scanner and flagged it as suspicious for no reason?

 

     It definitely applies to USC's as well. I think one of the things they mentioned is that all of the withdrawals were in amounts less than $10000, (structuring activity) which is definitely a pattern that raises suspicion. Money launderers often do this. There is no real benefit to doing that for regular people and it definitely could have been something that caught the attention of the CBP officer. At the same time, many people tend to do this because they get poor advice so it isn't really indicative of anything specific. 

 

    I do find it strange they gave him the option of an offer in compromise. It kind of sends the message that CBP knows they were wrong but that they really don't care. Not a good look.

 

[TBoneTX 45,303]

Not that Wikipedia is 100% believable, but this article is rather comprehensive:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States

[Steeleballz 7,550]

21 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Not that Wikipedia is 100% believable, but this article is rather comprehensive:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States

 

  Some sad cases in the links. Many of the people win their cases to get money back, but half of it goes to attorney fees. 

[TBoneTX 45,303]

And, sadly, they're arguably some of the luckier ones.

It would be interesting to learn how a civil forfeiture, what with law-enforcement and legal implications, might stain one's record.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

And, sadly, they're arguably some of the luckier ones.

It would be interesting to learn how a civil forfeiture, what with law-enforcement and legal implications, might stain one's record.

 

  The crazy part is they are not charging most of these people with anything. It shouldn't affect anyone's record at all. Seems like the best course if this happens is to sue for monetary damages and legal costs, if you can find an attorney who would take the case that way.  

[charmander 692]

I recommend the John Oliver episode on civil forfeiture.

 

 

[Dashinka 24,505]

On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:54 PM, Steeleballz said:

 

   Been there done that. The form is filed at customs when you exit (or enter) the USA for cash (or any monetary device).  Although the last time I crossed the border with an unsigned bank draft, the guy at customs said I didn't have to report it unless it was signed. Seems like a silly loop hole if true. I'm never sure those guys know what they are doing in the first place.

 

  Anyway you can carry any amount of cash on domestic flights, but I tend to agree, they saw his itinerary and his inability to answer and decided to take the cash. Legally they have no case though, and he's going to get it back, but people shouldn't have to go through this. Many countries, cash is king. When my wife goes to Russia, she always takes funds in cash. Nothing else is reliable in many places.  It's not uncommon, and  although that's a lot of cash, I think they could have got this guy an interpreter and got the answers they needed. 

 

 

I have never had any issues.  In fact, it was more of an issue to get US currency converted at a bank.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

14 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I have never had any issues.  In fact, it was more of an issue to get US currency converted at a bank.

 

  Depends where you go I guess. Last time my wife was there, there still wasn't a bank in Crimea that you could send Western Union and very few places where credit cards were reliable. Much of that is due to the annexation and sanctions. I don't think she ever had issues when it was Ukraine. She usually changes currency in Moscow. I don't think she has issues there.