Hillary Clinton: Santa Fe School Shooting Should Inspire ‘Soul Searching,’ Gun Control

[Boiler 45,518]

6 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

Yup, seems like it's way too easy for legally purchased guns to used by criminals. Longer waiting period to purchase a gun, along with mandatory gun registration. I'm sure law abiding gun owners would not object to making it more difficult for criminals to purchase guns.

There was a bit in the Denver Post some time back about all the people who had used false documents, caught but nothing happened.

 

Might be an idea to try enforcing current laws, just a thought.

[Sonea 138]

1 hour ago, bcking said:

What do you mean by "they look very similar statistically"?

 

What statistics are used to compare the clusters?

 

There are two types of clusters - localized and broad. I won't get in to localized because thats not what we are dealing with here, they are typical of a high density population such as a corporation or school. A recent example of a media driven broad event would be Robin William's suicide - http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0191405

 

In terms of mass shootings we are dealing with much smaller numbers but take a look at this article and scroll down to the timeline. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0191405   You will notice by in large most mass shootings happen in tight clusters lasting about a year starting in 1982. Then there is a clear gap between that cluster and the next. But the clusters are getting longer. We currently are in a cluster that started with June 17th 2015.

[TBoneTX 45,292]

6 hours ago, Póg mo said:

Where are criminals buying their guns from? Seeing as law abiding gun owners aren't doing the selling, how then does happen that they are able to buy guns? Are there criminal gun outlets or are law abiding gun owners just not very good at keeping their guns secure?

Anyone with the knowledge and the right tools can make their own guns.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

4 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Anyone with the knowledge and the right tools can make their own guns.

Danao city in Cebu is well known for its gin makers.

[bcking 3,157]

9 hours ago, Sonea said:

 

There are two types of clusters - localized and broad. I won't get in to localized because thats not what we are dealing with here, they are typical of a high density population such as a corporation or school. A recent example of a media driven broad event would be Robin William's suicide - http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0191405

 

In terms of mass shootings we are dealing with much smaller numbers but take a look at this article and scroll down to the timeline. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0191405   You will notice by in large most mass shootings happen in tight clusters lasting about a year starting in 1982. Then there is a clear gap between that cluster and the next. But the clusters are getting longer. We currently are in a cluster that started with June 17th 2015.

You used the same article for both links, I believe that was probably in error.

 

Would love to see the paper you were referencing in the second paragraph.

[Póg mo 1,749]

12 hours ago, Boiler said:

There was a bit in the Denver Post some time back about all the people who had used false documents, caught but nothing happened.

 

Might be an idea to try enforcing current laws, just a thought.

Or perhaps the laws that currently are on the books have too many loop holes or just are not very clear as their intentions. Yes I understand that conservatives have decided that doing nothing is much easier than doing anything, but how many children, ordinary people going about their daily business have to be murdered in cold blood before America decides enough is enough. Clearly what we have at the moment is not working. So why no just do a repeal of existing laws and enactment of newer more workable laws? What have we got to loose? 

[Póg mo 1,749]

8 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Anyone with the knowledge and the right tools can make their own guns.

Sure, they can. Most  teens probably wouldn't have either.

[Dashinka 24,500]

19 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

Sure, they can. Most  teens probably wouldn't have either.

Considering our public education system today, you may be correct.

[Boiler 45,518]

5 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Considering our public education system today, you may be correct.

Sad but true, need help doing up their shoe laces.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

30 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Sad but true, need help doing up their shoe laces.

Stay Woke brother. 

Even for a liberal you ok 

[Eric-Pris 1,606]

We don't need gun control.  We need children and parent control.  We need better parents and less messed up kids. 

BTW- Gun control only takes guns away from law abiding citizens.  Criminals tend to ignore gun laws.

[bcking 3,157]

9 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Anyone with the knowledge and the right tools can make their own guns.

Strange that we don't see a bunch of hand made guns in countries where it is much more difficult to buy them

44 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Considering our public education system today, you may be correct.

I'm pretty sure it's not standard in ANY public education system to teach students how to make "home made guns". Probably hasn't ever been standard in our public education system here (and if it was, likely at least 100 years ago).

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, Eric-Pris said:

We don't need gun control.  We need children and parent control.  We need better parents and less messed up kids. 

BTW- Gun control only takes guns away from law abiding citizens.  Criminals tend to ignore gun laws.

How do you suggest we create "children and parent control". I agree with you, but somehow I think that is going to be difficult so it seems like an impossible request. We can't restrict parents to "high quality parents". Especially if we also don't want to support birth control and abortion.

 

Do you have any examples of laws that criminals don't ignore? Criminals tend to ignore all laws, so that isn't a very useful argument. Let's just have no laws and anarchy then. Also - Most countries with tighter gun laws do indeed see fewer criminals using guns (not zero, but far less than we have) so in practice that also doesn't seem to be true.

Edited May 22, 2018 by bcking

[Boiler 45,518]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

How do you suggest we create "children and parent control". I agree with you, but somehow I think that is going to be difficult so it seems like an impossible request. We can't restrict parents to "high quality parents". Especially if we also don't want to support birth control and abortion.

 

Do you have any examples of laws that criminals don't ignore? Criminals tend to ignore all laws, so that isn't a very useful argument. Let's just have no laws and anarchy then. Also - Most countries with tighter gun laws do indeed see fewer criminals using guns (not zero, but far less than we have) so in practice that also doesn't seem to be true.

We have had at least 40 years getting here, not likely to be much quicker  resolving the issue, but first would need will and I see the MDL fighting this every step of the way.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

13 hours ago, Póg mo said:

Yup, seems like it's way too easy for legally purchased guns to used by criminals. Longer waiting period to purchase a gun, along with mandatory gun registration. I'm sure law abiding gun owners would not object to making it more difficult for criminals to purchase guns.

Criminals can not legally purchase guns under current law.  Don’t think it’s easy per se.  About the easiest method is theft.

 

The only thing that a longer wait period MIGHT do is allow someone with suicidal/homicidal thoughts to “cool down” (one of the reasons behind a wait period, that we have no way of knowing if it is working or not).  If a thug has a straw buyer, then a longer waiting period just means they will get their guns later, it doesn’t mean that they WON’T get them, unfortunately.  

 

Guns purchases are already registered, and a background check is conducted at the time of the sale in any gun shop or gun show, when buying from a dealer.  

 

Straw purchases are harder to trace, but I have heard several stories where someone was caught, and they basically had nothing done to them.  To me, a straw purchase that is proven should come with a 10-year gun purchase ban. (If said gun was bought for a known felon who could not buy their own, the real meaning of straw purchase).