USCIS interview failed because of lack of documentation showing joint assets and liabilities

[mushroomspore 3,044]

Maybe there is also a slight cultural difference and misunderstanding here. In North America, financial co-mingling is considered proof of a couple's life together. Why? Well, that's just what the American government has decided and it's long-been considered normal for couples here to pool their financial resources together, especially once they're married. I can't speak for other parts of the world because I've only ever lived in North America. I absolutely don't blame the IO for not looking at the affidavits. Yes, it is listed as acceptable evidence. But to have that as your MAIN body of evidence is very weak. From the IO's perspective, all they see is papers with some stuff written on them. They don't get to actually meet the people who wrote the affidavits. So yes, affidavits are considered "weak" evidence. On the other hand, money can be tracked VERY easily. 

 

As for the taxes, the IRS said the foreign spouse does not need to file their OWN taxes. That is NOT the same as the US citizen excluding their foreign spouse from THEIR taxes. There is a procedure for putting a foreign non-resident spouse on taxes. The foreign spouse could have gotten an ITIN for the meantime.

 

There's also the issue of having already been married when the foreign spouse arrived as a tourist. There's nothing technically ILLEGAL about him staying to adjust status. However the IO saw that the couple did not pursue the CR1 spousal visa and was much more strict about the provided evidence because it looks VERY iffy to them. 

[Ash.1101 1,756]

13 minutes ago, Farrah Lawson said:

 

We went to the bank for joint accounts ownership thing, they saw on the passport the admission stamp as visitor (non-immigrant) and it didn't help. That was before submitting the paperwork. We told them that we needed joint accounts ownership (after reading online about AOS) and they asked for SSN and utility bills on my spouse's name. We told them that this was a catch 22 as we would not get those without having joint bank accounts ownership. They apologized and said that that was the policy. We did not look for other banks to check their policies. My medical condition doesn't really let me run too much.

 

So we sent our AOS package (concurrent filing) without joint bank accounts, no lease and taxes filed on my name alone as per IRS instructions received over the phone. We did call USCIS and IRS before doing that as we wanted to do everything that is required officially.

 

Now, after filing and after the interview, how can we prove the official US address to a bank or any other institution? With the copies of the USCIS forms submitted where we have the physical address and the mailing address? They are just photocopies without any stamp or authorized USCIS signatures... With the Forms I-797C, Notice of Action?

How can we make the bank accept those? We just called the bank and they confirmed that a SSN and utility bills on my spouse's name are required. We can have utility bills on my name only. We didn't say anything about having copies of the USCIS forms submitted and  Forms I-797C, Notice of Action.

We also looked for leases and rental agreements, made phone calls... They would not put my spouse's name on the lease until we have something issued by the US Government such as SSN, EAD, etc. 

 

Thank you for you assistance with this matter. We are grateful and appreciate all the advice received from all the VJ members here.Took notes and trying to fix things now. So far we get the same answers (from the bank and about leases).

 

Out of curiosity, what utility bills do you have since you’re living in a hotel? Utilities are generally considered water, trash, gas, and electricity. Things like cable or cellphone don’t count.

[payxibka 10,045]

11 minutes ago, Farrah Lawson said:

taxes filed on my name alone as per IRS instructions received over the phone.

The IRS admits that they routinely give out inaccurate advice over the phone and they are not responsible for errors that they make.  So making a claim that you followed the advice given to you is not a defense.  You prepared the return in error  

[Orangesapples 1,954]

8 hours ago, Farrah Lawson said:

.

 

Answer: Explicit content shows without doubt or question that there is an ongoing marital status. Holding hands and smiling in a picture doesn't really show that, right?

 

I'm pretty sure that's not true. There are millions, if not billions of explicit photos and videos on the internet and I'm pretty sure most of them are not married. 

 

Name change, rings, wedding cake is not good proof either, actually it doesn't matter at all. 

[Going through 5,671]

31 minutes ago, Farrah Lawson said:

We told them that we needed joint accounts ownership (after reading online about AOS) and they asked for SSN and utility bills on my spouse's name. We told them that this was a catch 22 as we would not get those without having joint bank accounts ownership. They apologized and said that that was the policy. We did not look for other banks to check their policies. My medical condition doesn't really let me run too much.

Understandable you  may not have been as mobile getting around---but yeah, every bank has their own policies regarding opening accounts.  I adjusted status after crossing on a tourist visa and getting married as well and was able to open up a joint account with my husband at Chase (without anything other than my Canadian passport and marriage license showing my new name as ID).  May want to check there and try your luck.

 

31 minutes ago, Farrah Lawson said:

So we sent our AOS package (concurrent filing) without joint bank accounts, no lease and taxes filed on my name alone as per IRS instructions received over the phone. We did call USCIS and IRS before doing that as we wanted to do everything that is required officially.

If the person you spoke to on the phone was just one of the regular customer service people at USCIS, they are notorious for giving out wrong information.

Others, including myself, have already noted that the apparent information you received from the IRS was either misunderstood or not properly communicated.

 

31 minutes ago, Farrah Lawson said:

Now, after filing and after the interview, how can we prove the official US address to a bank or any other institution? With the copies of the USCIS forms submitted where we have the physical address and the mailing address? They are just photocopies without any stamp or authorized USCIS signatures... With the Forms I-797C, Notice of Action?

How can we make the bank accept those? We just called the bank and they confirmed that a SSN and utility bills on my spouse's name are required. We can have utility bills on my name only.

Three ways to solve this:

 

1) Continue to shop around with different banks, and/or,

2) Add your spouse to the utility bills as an authorized contact (different than being co-owner of the account), and/or

3) Add your spouse's name as beneficiary on your bank account (this is slightly different than adding them as a joint-owner of the account, not all banks allow this, however, again you have to shop around).

 

31 minutes ago, Farrah Lawson said:

We also looked for leases and rental agreements, made phone calls... They would not put my spouse's name on the lease until we have something issued by the US Government such as SSN, EAD, etc. 

Some landlords are finicky with this, yes, because they want to make sure they are renting to people with good credit, and need a way of checking that credit.

However, they WILL rent to you, since you obviously have the government ID they are looking for.  She doesn't HAVE to be on the lease---provided you have other strong evidence.  That's the part that's key---OTHER strong evidence.  

 

I've been living in this country for almost 14 years now and I've never been added to the lease.   Not being on the lease during my AOS/ROC stage was a non-issue because we had already provided adequate amounts of proof in other areas.  If you don't  have much to show, or didn't submit much with your package in the first place, then yes they will ask for further documentation such as both names on a lease.

 

You have to understand that an IO doesn't being the interview *looking* to deny you---they want to approve you, but they rely on you to give them the reasons why they should.  That's where having a strong showing of proof at the APPLICATION stage is paramount, not just the INTERVIEW stage.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Going through

[pauli 49]

3 hours ago, Farrah Lawson said:

gregcrs2, we met outside of the US 2 years ago. I have a place in Europe. I do not own property in the US any longer. We stay at the hotel near a hospital due to my medical condition and between family members. There are many houses where we are always welcome together with our dog.

I sold my house, my cars, my watercraft, my motorcycle. Everything else is in storage units in different states.

There is no need to get a lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence since we have so many family members that we stay at and they let us use their cars as well.

I will not buy a house nor cars just to please some USCIS worker. I made a decision long time ago about not having properties in this country anymore. It is my right and I will not reverse that because USCIS might like it.

 

1 hour ago, Ash.1101 said:

I don’t think they’ll care if he looses his LPR status.

 

Spouse came with OP to do medical, spouse realized visa is only good for 6 months, spouse applies for AOS simply to stay. Once the medical is done, they’re out of the US.

 

OP - do you truly intend on staying in the US after your treatment or returning to Europe?  Don't know about your timeline, but I'd be concerned about the implications the denied AOS could have on spouse potentially accumulating overstay days leading to a ban/unintended consequences should you move back to Europe.  Makes it all the more important to submit a strong AOS reapplication. 

 

[RLA 323]

2 minutes ago, Going through said:

You have to understand that an IO doesn't being the interview *looking* to deny you---they want to approve you

They're not looking to deny you, but I believe their policy is that they have to start their assessment from a neutral or even negative assumption, i.e. that your marriage might not be bona fide.  You need to overcome that assumption by presenting strong evidence.  It's not that the officer is particularly mean.  They're just following their instructions. 

[Going through 5,671]

3 minutes ago, RLA said:

They're not looking to deny you, but I believe their policy is that they have to start their assessment from a neutral or even negative assumption, i.e. that your marriage might not be bona fide.  You need to overcome that assumption by presenting strong evidence.  It's not that the officer is particularly mean.  They're just following their instructions. 

I think I covered that part where strong evidence is needed (you only quoted  part of the first sentence of what I said.)   

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Going through said:

You have to understand that an IO doesn't being the interview *looking* to deny you---they want to approve you, but they rely on you to give them the reasons why they should.  That's where having a strong showing of proof at the APPLICATION stage is paramount, not just the INTERVIEW stage.

 

[Villanelle 4,122]

First I have to admit that I didnt read the whole thread. Its way too long and a lot of going in circles going on.

 

To the OP. You can not appeal the decision since she was a B2. You can only file a motion to reopen or reconsider. Please check out this link- https://www.murthy.com/2011/12/30/motions-and-appeals-as-options-after-uscis-denial/

 

You also need to submit NEW evidence. You cant just resubmit the same stuff you already gave them in person or with the initial packet. It must be NEW evidence for them to consider. You are also taking the wrong attitude about this. Instead of arguing about how things should be you need to focus on how things actually are. Proving a bonafide relationship is subjective. There is no official checklist of what is needed. Everyone situation is different. People can offer you lists of common evidence presented and its up to you to present them or present alt evidence and reasons why you dont have the common evidences.

 

Try other banks. You may be able to open an account for both you guys at one. Fix your taxes. Print out the credit card statements you do have and show the joint purchases (purchases made for both your benefits), Show how your money pays for things for both of you. A joint account is not required if you can show your account pays for things for both of you. 

[mushroomspore 3,044]

It's also rather concerning that OP is not taking advice that's being given on here. Immigration is an EXTREMELY and FIERCELY hot topic in the US right now. It doesn't matter if one agrees with the way the current administration is handling immigration right now. What does matter is that they've thrust the issue into the forefront and even citizens who do or did not know anything about immigration are talking about it. It has everyone spooked and for good reason. The immigration agencies are not here to play. 

[RLA 323]

6 minutes ago, Going through said:

I think I covered that part where strong evidence is needed (you only quoted  part of the first sentence of what I said.) 

I guess so, and I don't really have anything to add to this recommendation.  I just thought it worthwhile to rephrase it a bit to make it as clear as possible that this is USCIS policy.  OP was not unlucky with her IO, it went as you'd have to expect. 

[cdneh 3,112]

"I don’t see any proof of a real marriage”. “Okay, I will see you out now.”

 

I keep seeing this, in most of your posts. I hope you actually understand, that while you seem seriously hung up what was said to you,  they didn't see any real proof because you didn't send them any.

 

It's all well and good for a time to nurture a sense of mighty righteous indignation, but you had better find a way to move on from that. Unless you can apply with an entirely new well thought out package, you are wasting your time and money.

 

USCIS doesn't really care. They don't care about your unwillingness to own any US property. They don't care that you supplied letters from hotels and relatives to support your reason for a transient lifestyle.  They don't care that you were misinformed by the IRS, or some random immigration attorney. They care about proof. Genuine irrefutable proof and you didn't give them that. The outcome was entirely predictable.

 

What you need to get a firm grasp on is that USCIS are the only game in town, if you want your spouse to remain in this country.  Get your ducks lined up, and this time properly, and file again.

 

 

[Unlockable 7,314]

Ya know what's funny? I'm actually entertaining myself with this thread by seeing how many pages it reaches before it is locked.

 

That is how far removed I am from giving further advice to the OP.

 

[thepanda 87]

1 hour ago, Farrah Lawson said:

 

We went to the bank for joint accounts ownership thing, they saw on the passport the admission stamp as visitor (non-immigrant) and it didn't help. That was before submitting the paperwork. We told them that we needed joint accounts ownership (after reading online about AOS) and they asked for SSN and utility bills on my spouse's name. We told them that this was a catch 22 as we would not get those without having joint bank accounts ownership. They apologized and said that that was the policy. We did not look for other banks to check their policies. My medical condition doesn't really let me run too much.

 

So we sent our AOS package (concurrent filing) without joint bank accounts, no lease and taxes filed on my name alone as per IRS instructions received over the phone. We did call USCIS and IRS before doing that as we wanted to do everything that is required officially.

 

Now, after filing and after the interview, how can we prove the official US address to a bank or any other institution? With the copies of the USCIS forms submitted where we have the physical address and the mailing address? They are just photocopies without any stamp or authorized USCIS signatures... With the Forms I-797C, Notice of Action?

How can we make the bank accept those? We just called the bank and they confirmed that a SSN and utility bills on my spouse's name are required. We can have utility bills on my name only. We didn't say anything about having copies of the USCIS forms submitted and  Forms I-797C, Notice of Action.

We also looked for leases and rental agreements, made phone calls... They would not put my spouse's name on the lease until we have something issued by the US Government such as SSN, EAD, etc. 

 

Thank you for you assistance with this matter. We are grateful and appreciate all the advice received from all the VJ members here.Took notes and trying to fix things now. So far we get the same answers (from the bank and about leases).

This is very strange. I was able to get onto our lease without a SSN. When I told the leasing office that I didn't have a SSN at that time because I was waiting for it, they said it was fine. They only needed one SSN - my husbands. That was even before we got married. All they wanted was an ID.

First I would get an apartment/lease and then you can go to the bank. When I opened up my account I was surprised that I didn't have to present a SSN. I did need to show proof of an official address though.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 minute ago, NuestraUnion said:

Ya know what's funny? I'm actually entertaining myself with this thread by seeing how many pages it reaches before it is locked.

 

That is how far removed I am from giving further advice to the OP.

 

I was just thinking pretty much the same thing when I check back every 30 minutes now.