N400 Denied - Suggestions.. advice?

[nabeel24 3]

Hey everyone, hope everyone is doing well today!

 

My wife and I were stunned this morning at the decision of my N400 being denied. I wanted to get some advice to what I might be looking forward to and the next steps to take. I'll provide the details of our application and the interview below. 

 

General Details:

- Married to wife (born US Citizen) for just over 5 years

- Received my green card 03/2013

- Filed N400 under 3-year rule on 08/2017 (would have been eligible under 5-year rule 4 months later)

 

Evidence Details:

- Had 3 years tax return (actually took 4 years)

- apartment lease (08/2016 and on... lived with parents before that)

- car insurance

- separate bank statements dating 3 years back (We have no joint account of anything due to one of us having bad finances and we've done incredibly well like this)

  (The statements we're to show marital union due to the address.. I figured since we've been married for 5+ years, this shouldn't be a problem because I didn't apply right at the 3 year mark)

 

Interview (Questionable details which I thought were important):

- Asked about current job, I mentioned I stopped working there 03/12 due to getting new job. I just graduated so I was making the transition to a career job. On my application I had that job as present because back then I had not graduated yet but still I figured I'd mention.

- Asked for traffic tickets... I said I had one in 2016 (Speeding) but fine was just about $200. I remember on the Application instructions, it said not to mention if below $500 or points deduction only but I found it interesting that she wrote it down.

- She asked about the joint account... I answered that I read it was recommended not to have joint account if one persons finance isn't good so we never did. 

- This might be a possible issue (We never thought of it but we never figured having issues because we've been married for a while): On the bank statements dating 3 years back, my wife's last name on them were her maiden name. Although she changed her last name on the marriage certificate she hadn't officially changed all other documents because when we got married in California we worked at the same location and one of us would get transferred if we should we were married. When we moved to Virginia, we again got aligned at the same workplace but it didn't matter so she changed it then. We remember asking when we got our marriage certificate if this is an issue they said she can change it on Credit cards and others things anytime she wants. 

 

Last thoughts:

- After the interview I thought about a few of things and thought MAYBE not having a joint account might cause an issue but I also thought we've been married for 5+ years and I'm not eligible to apply under 5-year rule so why would they deny....

- Once I receieve the letter I will update on the reasoning for my denial but I have a couple questions to ask. 

1) From my research, it seems it's recommended to re-apply for N400 rather than file for N336 which could take longer and might get denied again for a cost of ~$700. Is this re-filing an N400 recommended? Especially if it is for reasons of marriage proof, for me to file under the 5-year rule?

2) How soon can I re-file? I'm thinking of doing it through online this time, but am I able to file as soon as I receive the decision letter with the reasoning? Within the month?

3) Any other thoughts and advice you can give? 

 

I understand it's hard to speculate without the reason of why it was denied but we figured it is due to the joint accounts showing marital union. We also thought we would have at-least received a RFE letter... Thanks for reading this, I appreciate any help. We're just feeling stunned and disappointment especially because we live in the DC area and the citizenship would have helped with finding career jobs. Thank you! 

[TNJ17 1,329]

Those don’t sound like reasons for N-400 denial. You said you got your greencard in 2013, was that from marriage to your current wife? If you got your greencard from marrying the US citizen you can apply for naturalization 3 years on the date of the greencard if it wasn’t from her then you need to wait 5 years. So the only thing I see here is maybe your 5 years isn’t up if you didn’t get your greencard from marrying a US citizen. 

[nabeel24 3]

4 minutes ago, TNJ17 said:

Those don’t sound like reasons for N-400 denial. You said you got your greencard in 2013, was that from marriage to your current wife? If you got your greencard from marrying the US citizen you can apply for naturalization 3 years on the date of the greencard if it wasn’t from her then you need to wait 5 years. So the only thing I see here is maybe your 5 years isn’t up if you didn’t get your greencard from marrying a US citizen. 

 

The green card was not from marriage to current wife. I received it through my parents and however they filed for status. On my GC, under the "category" it says E30 which is: "Child of a skilled worker or professional". 

This is correct as I know my dad received his through workplace. 

 

As it stand now, I am eligible to file under the 5-year rule but again I didn't think I would get declined under the 3-year rule as I've been married for 5 years. 

[TNJ17 1,329]

Hmmm if 5 years have passed since the date on your greencard that makes you eligible. I don’t think 3 years apply to you because your greencard wasn’t from being married to a US citizen. But don’t quote me on that. 

 

Did they say anything to you about why it was denied at the interview? Do you have anything on your criminal history that might make you ineligible for citizenship? I honestly don’t see any of your reasons as being somewhat of a red flag for denial so there must be something else not listed. You’re better off waiting for the denial letter to see how you should proceed. Good luck. 

[nabeel24 3]

Just now, TNJ17 said:

Hmmm if 5 years have passed since the date on your greencard that makes you eligible. I don’t think 3 years apply to you because your greencard wasn’t from being married to a US citizen. But don’t quote me on that. 

 

Did they say anything to you about why it was denied at the interview? Do you have anything on your criminal history that might make you ineligible for citizenship? I honestly don’t see any of your reasons as being somewhat of a red flag for denial so there must be something else not listed. You’re better off waiting for the denial letter to see how you should proceed. Good luck. 

 

Yep. The only reason I applied under the 3-year rule is because at the time of application I was 4 months away from being eligible to apply under the 5-year rule. So we figured, let's just do it under marriage. Since then my 5-year mark has passed so IF need be, I'll apply under that. I just cannot believe that it was denied in the first place. The only reason I could think of is not having a joint account of any sort but that shouldn't be a make it or break it sort of thing. 

 

No reason, was just told she needs to review my file. I haven't even gone outside the U.S. in 18 years, which is when I came to the U.S. 

No criminal history, for the traffic ticket in 08/2016, it was initially filed under reckless driving which is a misdemeanor in VA but was dropped to regular traffic fine due to me never having any other ticket on my record. Absolutely no other criminal record for me.  

[cd37 229]

1 minute ago, nabeel24 said:

 

Yep. The only reason I applied under the 3-year rule is because at the time of application I was 4 months away from being eligible to apply under the 5-year rule. So we figured, let's just do it under marriage. Since then my 5-year mark has passed so IF need be, I'll apply under that. I just cannot believe that it was denied in the first place. The only reason I could think of is not having a joint account of any sort but that shouldn't be a make it or break it sort of thing. 

 

No reason, was just told she needs to review my file. I haven't even gone outside the U.S. in 18 years, which is when I came to the U.S. 

No criminal history, for the traffic ticket in 08/2016, it was initially filed under reckless driving which is a misdemeanor in VA but was dropped to regular traffic fine due to me never having any other ticket on my record. Absolutely no other criminal record for me.  

I dont think you are eligible under 3 yr rule since you disnt get your green card through marriage. Looks like you filed under wrong category. You should have filed under 5 yr rule.

[nabeel24 3]

4 minutes ago, cd37 said:

I dont think you are eligible under 3 yr rule since you disnt get your green card through marriage. Looks like you filed under wrong category. You should have filed under 5 yr rule.

 

Nope. I just checked to make sure. You simply need to have a Green Card and be married to a US Citizen for 3 years. Does not matter how you got that green card. You do not need to get the Green Card through marriage. 

[TNJ17 1,329]

22 minutes ago, cd37 said:

I dont think you are eligible under 3 yr rule since you disnt get your green card through marriage. Looks like you filed under wrong category. You should have filed under 5 yr rule.

Yeah, this is the only reason I can think of too. You filed 4 months too early. You need to be over the 5 years exactly. Never under. 

[TNJ17 1,329]

It’s not the joint bank account issue. That’s not even an issue. Most couples nowadays keep separate accounts. That’s not the reason why. Also, was it actually denied or just in for review? Because first you said it was denied, and now you say she said she needed to review it. If that’s so then it’s not a denial. 

[MahUSA 19]

Has your wife been a citizen for at least the last 3 years before you filed?

[nabeel24 3]

8 minutes ago, TNJ17 said:

Yeah, this is the only reason I can think of too. You filed 4 months too early. You need to be over the 5 years exactly. Never under. 

But I filed under Marriage, which is a 3-year rule. We've been married for 5 years. I would be 4 months too early IF I filed under the 5-year rule. 

[nabeel24 3]

9 minutes ago, TNJ17 said:

It’s not the joint bank account issue. That’s not even an issue. Most couples nowadays keep separate accounts. That’s not the reason why. Also, was it actually denied or just in for review? Because first you said it was denied, and now you say she said she needed to review it. If that’s so then it’s not a denial. 

 

To clarify, the interviewer told me she needed to review at the interview. I got/see the notice online that it has been denied and I'll be receiving a letter regarding that. 

 

7 minutes ago, MahUSA said:

Has your wife been a citizen for at least the last 3 years before you filed?

 

She has. She was born in the US (California). I also took her passport to the interview, but the interviewer did not check it. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by nabeel24

[TNJ17 1,329]

3 minutes ago, nabeel24 said:

But I filed under Marriage, which is a 3-year rule. We've been married for 5 years. I would be 4 months too early IF I filed under the 5-year rule. 

I still think you don’t qualify for the 3 year rule since you didn’t get your greencard from marriage to a US citizen. 

[nabeel24 3]

11 minutes ago, TNJ17 said:

I still think you don’t qualify for the 3 year rule since you didn’t get your greencard from marriage to a US citizen. 

 

I have researched this a ton and have asked this question to an USCIS officer so I know this isn't the case. You do not have to receive the green card through marriage. Regardless, I'll post a link below with an explanation which has an example as well just for clarification. Might help or might not. 

 

https://citizenpath.com/applying-for-citizenship-through-marriage/

 

Quote from article:

Example 2
"Kyle obtained a green card through employment; he has been a permanent resident since 7/1/2009. After obtaining his permanent residence, he met Michelle, a U.S. citizen, and they got married on 7/1/2010. If Kyle and Michelle remain married, he will meet the continuous residence requirement for naturalization on 7/2/2013. (At this point he will have been a permanent resident for four years, but married to a U.S. citizen for only three years.) If the marriage falls apart before 7/2/2013, Kyle can still apply for citizenship after five years, 7/2/2014."

[dwheels76 5,468]

You were denied because you didn't qualify under the marriage 3 year rule. Don;t know what you investigated but it was wrong. You filed too early for 5 year need to wait that 4 months.

 

So when your 5 years as a LPR comes up you are eligible to file.