IS IT EVER HOPELESS????

[mybackpages 0]

There's nothing more circular about my logic than there is something sensible about denying factors that don't fit a bias on this board. No one has ever said that none of the factors you listed don't exist. In fact, they are part of a "duh" factor. It's about time we speak of some that aren't often discussed.

Unaddressed is the fact that we don't often know why people are rejected. Many are rejected with NO questioning about many of those issues. Some are, and approved. There basically is no set way to determine what works. It'####### and miss; even addressing all your red flags in your initial petition means nothing if they never ask you about them, and still reject you anyway. That is also what we see here. Mostly, what we can do is suggest and offer support if you don't make the cut, and congrats if you do.

I too have wondered if this process through Casa is a hit and miss, luck of the draw process, but I have concluded it's not. while its true we do not know the reasons for the denials, that only means there are pieces to the puzzle missing. I believe thare are guidelines that are followed (often interpretable, but as clear as can be made without locking themselves in a box).

There are some clear patterns though and the best we can do is discuss these, share our experiences and let anyone who comes along measure these against thier own particulat case.

Sorry for the typing errors. I hate this laptop

Edited May 6, 2007 by mybackpages

[Caladan 19]

I don't think it's a bias on this board. It's a matter of working with the information at hand, not postulating information that isn't at hand. On this board, there isn't a lot of evidence for the Arab/non-Arab problem. VJ might not be representative of all of the Ks going through Casa, but.. do you have a particular reason for thinking so?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There's nothing more circular about my logic than there is something sensible about denying factors that don't fit a bias on this board. No one has ever said that none of the factors you listed don't exist. In fact, they are part of a "duh" factor. It's about time we speak of some that aren't often discussed.

Unaddressed is the fact that we don't often know why people are rejected. Many are rejected with NO questioning about many of those issues. Some are, and approved. There basically is no set way to determine what works. It'####### and miss; even addressing all your red flags in your initial petition means nothing if they never ask you about them, and still reject you anyway. That is also what we see here. Mostly, what we can do is suggest and offer support if you don't make the cut, and congrats if you do.

I too have wondered if this process through Casa is a hit and miss, luck of the draw process, but I have concluded it's not. while its true we do not know the reasons for the denials, that only means there are pieces to the puzzle missing. I believe thare are guidelines that are followed (often interpretable, but as clear as can be made without locking themselves in a box).

There are some clear patterns though and the best we can do is discuss these, share our experiences and let anyone who comes along measure these against thier own particulat case.

Sorry for the typing errors. I hate this laptop

Sorry about your laptop

I'm not referring to the decisions as hit or miss. I'm referring to our advice to those here. What are these patterns, as you see them?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't think it's a bias on this board. It's a matter of working with the information at hand, not postulating information that isn't at hand. On this board, there isn't a lot of evidence for the Arab/non-Arab problem. VJ might not be representative of all of the Ks going through Casa, but.. do you have a particular reason for thinking so?

Thanks, sis! You just raised another issue that may be a skew for the board. So many K visas. We are also top heavy with Ks. Is that a factor in a COs consideration? How to the rates of return compare with IR1 and CR1s? If fewer people did Ks, would the results be different?

Edited May 6, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[peezey 0]

Frankly, and I've said this before, in relation to age gaps, it is just as much of a red flag for a Muslim to marry a non-Muslim, an Arab to marry a non-Arab or a westerner, for there to be language barriers and for the woman to be more properous than the man. Culturally, this is waaaay out of wack to the norm. What do they really have in common when it is far more traditional to prefer to marry within one's own social class and social circle? To marry in this way is not NORMAL in Arab working class circles either, and it is most certainly counted among the considerations when discerning fraud in Muslim countries, and should not be overlooked when questions such as these are raised.

Of course I agree with all of this, and I actually don't think it's wrong for a relationship to be mutually beneficial. But what I don't understand is how it is some deny any of this is and can be problematic not only for immigration but for a sustained relationship, without ever being honest about it all.

[Jenn! 918]

I don't think it's a bias on this board. It's a matter of working with the information at hand, not postulating information that isn't at hand. On this board, there isn't a lot of evidence for the Arab/non-Arab problem. VJ might not be representative of all of the Ks going through Casa, but.. do you have a particular reason for thinking so?

This is just speculation on my part, but I bet that the demographic makeup on VJ is likely to be somewhat different than that of all the K's going through Casa. I bet the number of relationships here that began online is probably higher than the general population. And I'm sure that shifts the demographic. Probably more non-Arabs here on VJ...

[Caladan 19]

Good, that's a reason for thinking there's other flags we don't think about. G-EG, that's a good point. I would hope that all visas are subject to the same scrutiny, but it's possible that VJ-relationships skew K and non-VJ (without VJ flags) skew CR-1.

It also makes it somewhat irrelevant. To the extent that other VJer MENAnites are likely to be all-American chicas conversant with the internet who met Moroccans guys online, the advice from VJers to other VJers might be spot-on, though not reflecting on Casablanca's policies at large.

I also thought mybackpages' point seems to be right on. If I had to guess at what seems to be the biggest problem for VJers going through Casa, I'd say it's a language barrier combined with some hole in the background story. This makes it a bit hard to plan for.

[peezey 0]

What is weird is. how come CASA has the biggest amount of Returned petitons.

I think that is strange because, there are age gaps and stuff in other nations.

course Pakistan embassy loves to give endless Admin processing to people. that because, of national security. but, how come CASA has this reputation? anyone knows?

YES, BABYBUNNY, exactly. Does anyone know the exact percentage of those being rejected on the fiance visas and the spouse visas? I will be surprised if the consulate there publishes it. I know someone will say cuz Morocco has lots of terrorists, but that's racist. There are crazies everywhere, including folks from countries that don't even need visas to visit other countries.

I don't know anyone who would say Morocco rejections have anything to do with terrorism. Fraud in Morocco isn't to perpetrate terrorism, it's because it's a poor country with few jobs, and people want to get out and make a life for themselves.

[peezey 0]

does morocco have ugly dudes? I thought the men there were very handsome..

so there goes the ugly theory.

it might not be the dudes in question here.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't think it's a bias on this board. It's a matter of working with the information at hand, not postulating information that isn't at hand. On this board, there isn't a lot of evidence for the Arab/non-Arab problem. VJ might not be representative of all of the Ks going through Casa, but.. do you have a particular reason for thinking so?

This is just speculation on my part, but I bet that the demographic makeup on VJ is likely to be somewhat different than that of all the K's going through Casa. I bet the number of relationships here that began online is probably higher than the general population. And I'm sure that shifts the demographic. Probably more non-Arabs here on VJ...

Good points. Should we assume that we are the norm here and so what the consulates do to us is an accurate reflection of the complete picture of what is accepted and denied? Is there something we can adopt and apply from the substantial part of the diagram that is not here that would help us be more precise about what we advise and do, especially since our relationships do tend to be even less conventional than expected, internet meetings and such, not to mention the rest of the conventional red flags?

Edited May 6, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[mybackpages 0]

There's nothing more circular about my logic than there is something sensible about denying factors that don't fit a bias on this board. No one has ever said that none of the factors you listed don't exist. In fact, they are part of a "duh" factor. It's about time we speak of some that aren't often discussed.

Unaddressed is the fact that we don't often know why people are rejected. Many are rejected with NO questioning about many of those issues. Some are, and approved. There basically is no set way to determine what works. It'####### and miss; even addressing all your red flags in your initial petition means nothing if they never ask you about them, and still reject you anyway. That is also what we see here. Mostly, what we can do is suggest and offer support if you don't make the cut, and congrats if you do.

I too have wondered if this process through Casa is a hit and miss, luck of the draw process, but I have concluded it's not. while its true we do not know the reasons for the denials, that only means there are pieces to the puzzle missing. I believe thare are guidelines that are followed (often interpretable, but as clear as can be made without locking themselves in a box).

There are some clear patterns though and the best we can do is discuss these, share our experiences and let anyone who comes along measure these against thier own particulat case.

Sorry for the typing errors. I hate this laptop

Sorry about your laptop

I'm not referring to the decisions as hit or miss. I'm referring to our advice to those here. What are these patterns, as you see them?

Did misread, so thanks for the clarification. Yes our advice can be hit or miss esp since not every gives all the details of the relationship nor can we see the petition that the CO is looking at. Boy if we did I bet we would know MUCH more about the process!

Some of the patterns I see? I hestitate to spell it out. You know that darn elephant in the room! But definate a lack of knowledge of the process seems to hurt BIG time. Being able to look at our petitions as a CO would is one of the best things we can do, but manyhave a difficult time doing this because the evidence and reationship is so logical and clear in our minds.

I think I will reserve the balance of my time to come back to this later. <<<dances around the elephant>>>

[mybackpages 0]

I don't think it's a bias on this board. It's a matter of working with the information at hand, not postulating information that isn't at hand. On this board, there isn't a lot of evidence for the Arab/non-Arab problem. VJ might not be representative of all of the Ks going through Casa, but.. do you have a particular reason for thinking so?

This is just speculation on my part, but I bet that the demographic makeup on VJ is likely to be somewhat different than that of all the K's going through Casa. I bet the number of relationships here that began online is probably higher than the general population. And I'm sure that shifts the demographic. Probably more non-Arabs here on VJ...

I would agree. I think there are a significant number of Moroccan-Americans filing for Moroccan fiances/wives. We rarely see this case. I also think there are more internet first relationships here, but there are not a significant number of Americans traveling to Morocco for travel. Surely the European consulates see many more marriage based petitions from couple who met while the EU citizen was on holiday than the US consulate does. I bet the vast majority of USC/Morocco couples where the USC is not also a Moroccan, met on the internet.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

If age is the elephant. so be it. Don't let it be the love that dare not speak its name

Maybe I've missed something, tho. Who are all these couples who were denied due to age? Does the age skew in MENA have something to do with a tendency to deny age difference couples, if there is one? What is the disparity between those denied without a significant age difference and those denied without one?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The petition I filed makes no mention of my religion, ethnicity, language skills, familial national origin, or where I grew up. Those are things that can't be known off hand without probing, or without it having been included in the petition on my own. If they don't ask, how do they know what your differences or similarites are beyond what you tell them? And often they never ask.

Edited May 6, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[mybackpages 0]

If age is the elephant. so be it. Don't let it be the love that dare not speak its name

Maybe I've missed something, tho. Who are all these couples who were denied due to age? Does the age skew in MENA have something to do with a tendency to deny age difference couples, if there is one? What is the disparity between those denied without a significant age difference and those denied without one?

Age is not the elephant. Seriously though too many couples with an age gap who get the visa.