IS IT EVER HOPELESS????

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I think that one of the first things that the Consulate knows and accepts is that the couple is most likely going to be of different cultures and backgrounds. It is afterall a Consulate in a foreign country who handles marriages and other family related cases between Americans and the country where the Consulate is located.

Exactly !

And it's rather assumptive to claim that members of the ME/NA board are "overwhelmingly white." Actually, I think the ME/NA membership is pretty representational of the various ethnicities in the U.S. today (which is not "overwhelmingly white," either.) Sure, we have white folks here, but we also have many members who are of Native American, African-American, Hispanic, Asian, Arab and other heritages (and many people are of mixed heritages, whether they realize it or not.) We have women here who are blond-haired and white-skinned, yet they have a grandfather who is black. Also, quite a few members don't even post such information, so who knows what "category" they belong in ?

And what exactly does "white" mean, anyway ? My husband (like many Arabs) considers himself "white," although his complexion is rather darker than the Nordic European type and many Americans might perceive him as "non-white." Here in the U.S., he's most often mistaken for Mexican (which kind of annoyed him at first.) Many Mediterranean types are quite dark in comparison to the "blond-haired, blue-eyed" European stereotype, and are often darker than some who might be perceived as "non-white." DNA research indicates that populations of Europe/Northern Africa/the Middle East are far more closely inter-related than many would assume. Bloodlines don't just stop at the border.

[Marriednow 4]

You don't lose your American citizenship by living overseas. Is that what you were asking? Or whether he would lose his permanent residency if you moved back?

I guess what I am wondering is (and this is a health insurance issue and don't know if it's the same in Canada) how long a person has to be in the USA for authorities to know that they do have residency and can keep getting health insurance. For example, I am with Blue Cross, and they said if you live over there, you do not get insurance, same with Medicare in the USA. I'm wondering if a person can fly back and forth for health care. Sorry to be so ignorant on this. Thanks Caladan for your input.

Oh, residency for your health care. That's going to depend on the health care plan and its details. C.'s insurance won't cover him in the U.S. He's going to buy traveler's insurance for three months, until we're married so I can put him onto mine.

But you'll have to check with your plan. My guess, based on my health care plan, is that it won't cover anything overseas with the possible exception of emergency care, but that if you're paid up, if you fly back for a checkup with your on-network doctor, that would be covered. Fortunately, that's between you and your insurance company, and doesn't involve the department of state.

--

According to the nice link upthread, Casa had 865 or so immediate relative petitions approved last year. The link didn't say out of how many, but I'm sure that information's out there. What's striking is how many visas were approved out of Morocco compared to the surrounding areas. Or hell, even compared to Canada, which had 1200 or so. If there's been an uptick in "hey, here's a great way to get to the U.S." or even just more internet access in the country, that could explain the extra scrutiny.

CALADAN--I have to say that in Morocco, I saw a refreshing lack of materialism in the people I met versus us here in the USA. I mean, hell, they are happy with a good meal and a nice place to stay. We here in the USA are scratching and clawing to get a bigger car, better house, all that #######. I admire their lack of stress and diet-induced health problems, and all that stuff. That is why I wouldn't mind living there. Now if I was 30, who knows? lol Also, as for online relationships, he is so much more mature than the guys I met in their 30's, 40's, and 50's. No games, no bullsh--. And if he's acting, I will insist he get an Oscar for BEST PERFORMANCE BY A FOREIGN ACTOR." I mean, it's possible he is in it for the green card, but I suppose every marriage could have hidden agendas. So, at this point, only time will tell, as with all relationships. Thanks for your input!!!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

WOM, are you trying to say that the majority of women petitioning here do not consider themselves to be white?

Edited May 6, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

WOM, are you trying to say that the majority of women petitioning here do not consider themselves to be white?

I was responding to this:

This board is overwhelmingly white

[Sofiyya 1,687]

PS. According to the 2005 US Census, 80.2% of the US population considers themselves to be white, so claims that the US is not "overwhelmingly white" are false.

Source: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

However, as I said, Arab is not about race. I'm confused as to why there are so many road blocks put up about some issues preferring to deflect onto age rather than other valid issues the consulates are REALLY considering whether you like it or not.

Edited May 6, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[babybunny 2]

I think that one of the first things that the Consulate knows and accepts is that the couple is most likely going to be of different cultures and backgrounds. It is afterall a Consulate in a foreign country who handles marriages and other family related cases between Americans and the country where the Consulate is located.

And what exactly does "white" mean, anyway ? My husband (like many Arabs) considers himself "white," although his complexion is rather darker than the Nordic European type and many Americans might perceive him as "non-white." Here in the U.S., he's most often mistaken for Mexican (which kind of annoyed him at first.) Many Mediterranean types are quite dark in comparison to the "blond-haired, blue-eyed" European stereotype, and are often darker than some who might be perceived as "non-white." DNA research indicates that populations of Europe/Northern Africa/the Middle East are far more closely inter-related than many would assume. Bloodlines don't just stop at the border.

how did we go from RED FLAGS to DNA research?

maybe we need some DNA on the COs to find out why they keep sending petitions back to USICS.

WOM, are you trying to say that the majority of women petitioning here do not consider themselves to be white?

I am not white- far from it..

[Sofiyya 1,687]

WOM, are you trying to say that the majority of women petitioning here do not consider themselves to be white?

I was responding to this:

This board is overwhelmingly white

I made a statement that this board is overwhelmingly white. I also mentioned that we have more age difference relationships, and that we are but a fraction of the cases going thru MENA consulates. I said it soley to make a cautionary point about using the experiences posted here as empirical data. However, it was not proven that I was wrong, so far.

Edited May 6, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

PS. According to the 2005 US Census, 80.2% of the US population considers themselves to be white, so claims that the US is not "overwhelmingly white" are false.

Source: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Your link leads to a Google search page rather than your specific source.

Anyway check this out -- according the same U.S. Office of the Census that you cite, you would be "white," too:

White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish.

http://www.fedstats.gov/qf/meta/long_336219.htm

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

how did we go from RED FLAGS to DNA research?

maybe we need some DNA on the COs to find out why they keep sending petitions back to USICS.

I am not white- far from it..

Yup -- that's what I was trying to explain -- we have a pretty good cross-section of ethnicities here.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

PS. According to the 2005 US Census, 80.2% of the US population considers themselves to be white, so claims that the US is not "overwhelmingly white" are false.

Source: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Your link leads to a Google search page rather than your specific source.

My bad -- the link is working !

[sarah and hicham 3]

I happen to think that there are many other red flags that pose a greater risk of denial than the difference in culture and race. Like I said before a difference in race or culture is pretty much a given in a relationship between an American and a Moroccan. I don't think there's much to the "issue" coming up on the board other than a certain member bringing it up over and over. I don't think it plays much of a role in such relationships as much as age difference, lack of common language, or other known red flags might play.

Also I don't see how a Consulate would have the time to analyze each relationship of different cultures to make sure they are compatible. I have no idea what that would consist of or how a conclusion would be reached on whether or not a couple is worthy of a visa based on cultural differences. I think there are other indicators of fraud than two people in love who are of different backgrounds.

Edited May 6, 2007 by sarah and hicham

[Sofiyya 1,687]

We may have a cross section of ethnicities here, but as you yourselves maintain, and your husband proves, those ethnicities can still be white.

I'm not interested in inciting a race war. My point is to say, counter to the "evidence" citing on MENA, that what is reported here is in no way empirical evidence of what causes rejection in the MENA consulates. We are a mere sliver of what happens there with family based visas, so any aprehension about weighing ALL applicable elements of one's relationship with filing for a visa is not beneficial to the board.

[Caladan 19]

Arab is not a race. I'm not talking about race when I mention Arab/non-Arab. I'm Arab, but there are people here who maintain that I'm not simply because I was born in the US. I'm mostly distinquishing between culture, history, perceptions base on community. Those are factors in determining the validity of a relationship in MENA.

That I agree with, though I think those worries present as flags not as Arab/not-Arab flags but distilled down to: age (large gaps less common than in the U.S.), marital history (remarriage frowned upon), religion (perhaps more important than in the U.S.), number of visits (to establish the USC's familiarity with the region and her fiancé), and language (which seems to me to be rather one of the bigger flags.)

Personally, I wouldn't be able to date someone if I didn't understand their culture well. People aren't islands. It's like problems with the mother-in-law writ large.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I happen to think that there are many other red flags that pose a greater risk of denial than the difference in culture and race Like I said before a difference in race or culture is pretty much a given in a relationship between an American and a Moroccan. I don't think there's much to the "issue" coming up on the board other than a certain member bringing it up over and over. I don't think it plays much of a role in such relationships as much as age difference, lack of common language, or other known red flags might play.

Also I don't see how a Consulate would have the time to analyze each relationship of different cultures to make sure they are compatible. I have no idea what that would consist of or how a conclusion would be reached on whether or not a couple is worthy of a visa based on cultural differences. I think there are other indicators of fraud than two people in love who are of different backgrounds.

I mentioned culture and race far fewer times than you've mentioned age over and over. Since you state yourself that you have no idea of how the consulate does things or if they have time to, perhaps you don't have much to add here.

Edited May 6, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[sarah and hicham 3]

I see something in common in those who are denied but I can't say it or everyone will cry.