Third judge rules against Trump move to end DACA

[bcking 3,157]

45 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Are you sure about that?  I don't think the legal questions have all been answered with respect to the constitutionality of DACA yet.

 If Trump had decided to just leave it in no one would have questioned it and it would have remained.

 

If I were President (obviously a huge if I realize) and I wanted to question the legality of DACA BUT I also agreed with its sentiments (I didn't want to kick Dreamers out) I would have called for an evaluation of its legality and in the MEANTIME left the law active until the questions were answered.

 

Both sides at this point are using it as a political pawn. Trump clearly didn't actually care about the Dreamers because he was willing to put them on the block as a bargaining chip. If something was negotiated for them to stay, great. If not, he can blame it on someone else. They weren't in his priority list, despite his claims after the fact.

[Dashinka 24,504]

16 minutes ago, bcking said:

 If Trump had decided to just leave it in no one would have questioned it and it would have remained.

 

If I were President (obviously a huge if I realize) and I wanted to question the legality of DACA BUT I also agreed with its sentiments (I didn't want to kick Dreamers out) I would have called for an evaluation of its legality and in the MEANTIME left the law active until the questions were answered.

 

Both sides at this point are using it as a political pawn. Trump clearly didn't actually care about the Dreamers because he was willing to put them on the block as a bargaining chip. If something was negotiated for them to stay, great. If not, he can blame it on someone else. They weren't in his priority list, despite his claims after the fact.

You refer to DACA as a law.  Last I heard, a president cannot create a law all by himself, or are you suggesting Obama was leaning toward totalitarianism? 

 

My only beef with this whole thing is the priorities of the DACA only (appear to be open boarders supporters) supporters.  The border needs more security first because if DACA leads to citizenship for the "Dreamers" there will be another group that has to be taken care of in a few more years. 

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

You refer to DACA as a law.  Last I heard, a president cannot create a law all by himself, or are you suggesting Obama was leaning toward totalitarianism? 

 

My only beef with this whole thing is the priorities of the DACA only (appear to be open boarders supporters) supporters.  The border needs more security first because if DACA leads to citizenship for the "Dreamers" there will be another group that has to be taken care of in a few more years. 

DACA was an EO, nothing more. I agree with you on that.

 

My point was that if the subsequent President had left it, no one would have questioned that. We would have all just moved on.

 

If he wanted to make it more "official" he could have asked Congress to do that WITHOUT creating a deadline or ending the EO beforehand. That is what he would have done if he still wanted to protect the Dreamers.

[Dashinka 24,504]

38 minutes ago, bcking said:

DACA was an EO, nothing more. I agree with you on that.

 

My point was that if the subsequent President had left it, no one would have questioned that. We would have all just moved on.

 

If he wanted to make it more "official" he could have asked Congress to do that WITHOUT creating a deadline or ending the EO beforehand. That is what he would have done if he still wanted to protect the Dreamers.

Didn't something have to be done?  Would we have just continued to provide the DACA recipients with EADs and Deferred Actions indefinitely?

 

You make it sound like an EO is as official as a Law with your quotes around "official".  EOs are at the whim of the president that signs them, Trump was well within his rights to cancel this one.

[bcking 3,157]

44 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Didn't something have to be done?  Would we have just continued to provide the DACA recipients with EADs and Deferred Actions indefinitely?

 

You make it sound like an EO is as official as a Law with your quotes around "official".  EOs are at the whim of the president that signs them, Trump was well within his rights to cancel this one.

I'm not saying he overstepped his rights. I agree he was within his rights to cancel it.

 

My point is if his priority was protecting the Dreamers but making the EO legal, he would have left it WHILE Congress debated and came up with a full law.

 

The way he did it left the Dreamers hanging and that is on him. He decided to cut it off and knew it could be bargained for in debates. He showed his true priorities.

[Dashinka 24,504]

3 minutes ago, bcking said:

I'm not saying he overstepped his rights. I agree he was within his rights to cancel it.

 

My point is if his priority was protecting the Dreamers but making the EO legal, he would have left it WHILE Congress debated and came up with a full law.

 

The way he did it left the Dreamers hanging and that is on him. He decided to cut it off and knew it could be bargained for in debates. He showed his true priorities.

Trump saw it as a possible bargaining chip supposing that the Democrats really meant what they said relative to caring about the dreamers.  Trump found out that the Democrats were just lying, they could not care less about the Dreamers.

[bcking 3,157]

3 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Trump saw it as a possible bargaining chip supposing that the Democrats really meant what they said relative to caring about the dreamers.  Trump found out that the Democrats were just lying, they could not care less about the Dreamers.

Or, as I already stated, it just wasn't a big enough chip compared to what they had to agree to.

 

Not bargaining about something doesn't mean you don't care. If we don't negotiate with terrorists during a hostage situation it doesn't mean we don't care about the hostages. It doesn't mean we want the terrorists to just kill them.

 

On the other hand - The person holding the gun to the hostage's head truly doesn't care about them. It's clear where their priorities are.

 

Trump chose to hold the gun.

Edited April 30, 2018 by bcking

[charmander 692]

33 minutes ago, bcking said:

Or, as I already stated, it just wasn't a big enough chip compared to what they had to agree to.

 

Not bargaining about something doesn't mean you don't care. If we don't negotiate with terrorists during a hostage situation it doesn't mean we don't care about the hostages. It doesn't mean we want the terrorists to just kill them.

 

On the other hand - The person holding the gun to the hostage's head truly doesn't care about them. It's clear where their priorities are.

 

Trump chose to hold the gun.

Trump is destined to hold the gun as long as the 32 year old anti-immigration zealot stays as his chief immigration consultant. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

11 minutes ago, charmander said:

Trump is destined to hold the gun as long as the 32 year old anti-immigration zealot stays as his chief immigration consultant. 

Don't be mad that us Xennials and Millenials are taking over with our brand spanking new ideas.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

15 minutes ago, charmander said:

Trump is destined to hold the gun as long as the 32 year old anti-immigration zealot stays as his chief immigration consultant. 

How is he a Zealot???? I am asking for examples and not rhetoric please.

[charmander 692]

1 minute ago, cyberfx1024 said:

Don't be mad that us Xennials and Millenials are taking over with our brand spanking new ideas.

I am a member too. Hi mate!

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 minute ago, charmander said:

I am a member too. Hi mate!

of being a Millenial or a Xennial? Cheers then!!!!

[charmander 692]

16 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

How is he a Zealot???? I am asking for examples and not rhetoric please.

I love the "show me the proof" discussions on VJ, truly from both sides. Anyway, for me, his debate with Acosta was sufficient.

 

14 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

of being a Millenial or a Xennial? Cheers then!!!!

Not sure, maybe both. Some start millenians from '80, then some include '80-'83 to xennials.

Edited April 30, 2018 by charmander

[smilesammich 10,727]

tfw millenial/xennials claim that their immigration ideas are "new"..

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

56 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

Don't be mad that us Xennials and Millenials are taking over with our brand spanking new ideas.