The moment a teenage girl was stoned to death for loving the wrong boy

[William33 110]

Allrighty then, the whole thing is fcucked.

I was hoping for better, but that ain't gonna happen.

What do we do now? I say withdraw. Why? In or out, we are targets. Out is less of a target.

Oh well, I could make the point that I would rather be a target there where we have heavily armed solders that are equipped to deal with such things rather than innocent women and children being the target in our own country, but I can see it's an argument that is lost on some here.

Peace William.

I find the primary issue appalling.

However, having lived in the largest Muslim country and being married to a national of it, I disagree that religion is at the core. This is a Middle Eastern cultural practice. People do not get stoned in Indonesia. Occasional sectarian violence? yes. Honor killings? no.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Gary,

I disagree.

Aren't we supposed to be changing "hearts and minds"? Ridiculous, I know. But this is the reality of our Government.

This does include the core issue of this thread bro. It ain't gonna happen, as culture always rules.

Edit: for spelling...

No, we are not trying to "change the hearts and minds" I challenge you to show me where Bush ever said that was our goal.

Winning hearts and minds was the actual phrase used over and over. But we're not doing that either.

Specifically because of this "we're rather fight them there than here" which translates into "we rather have them use Iraqi civilians for target practice" which translates into "Iraqi lives are worth less than American lives" arrogant stance that some people will never understand was the worst message that this country could have ever sent towards a people we were falsely claiming to liberate.

Oh well, I could make the point that I would rather be a target there where we have heavily armed solders that are equipped to deal with such things rather than innocent women and children being the target in our own country, but I can see it's an argument that is lost on some here.

Edited May 5, 2007 by ET-US2004

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Small point. It seems this incident took place in the Kurdish part of the country according to OP article.... With the people we were supposedly allied with.

The Kurds being one of the groups subjected to ethnic cleansing by Saddam..

Edited May 5, 2007 by erekose

[slim 1,514]

Someone remind me again: What are we over there fighting for exactly?

Oil. Plain and simple. We are not there to change things like this.

For all of you that say this is horrible, these people are animals, etc., you're only looking at it through the "Westerner" point of view. In this part of the world, things like stoning someone to death, while not commonplace, are not unheard of either. Although it's probably "illegal" in Kurdistan (not sure of the current legality) it's probably not going to be prosecuted either. This is a region where women are viewed to be the "property" of men. Wives to husbands, daughters to fathers, and female family members to the males of the family.

As previously pointed out, this isn't an "Islam" thing. It's a regional and cultural thing.

These types of stories are reported in "our" press (here in the States and in the UK) not to gain advocacy for females in that part of the world, but to change our hearts and minds as to what type of "enemy" we're fighting.

The Middle East is an extremely complex place with a culture vastly different from our own. So when you see stories from that part of the world, view them not just from your own perspective, but from their's as well.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Someone remind me again: What are we over there fighting for exactly?

Oil. Plain and simple. We are not there to change things like this.

For all of you that say this is horrible, these people are animals, etc., you're only looking at it through the "Westerner" point of view. In this part of the world, things like stoning someone to death, while not commonplace, are not unheard of either. Although it's probably "illegal" in Kurdistan (not sure of the current legality) it's probably not going to be prosecuted either. This is a region where women are viewed to be the "property" of men. Wives to husbands, daughters to fathers, and female family members to the males of the family.

As previously pointed out, this isn't an "Islam" thing. It's a regional and cultural thing.

These types of stories are reported in "our" press (here in the States and in the UK) not to gain advocacy for females in that part of the world, but to change our hearts and minds as to what type of "enemy" we're fighting.

The Middle East is an extremely complex place with a culture vastly different from our own. So when you see stories from that part of the world, view them not just from your own perspective, but from their's as well.

I believe that every human being, no matter where they happen to be, has certain inalienable rights. Human rights. To be an ally of ours, a people should understand, subscribe to and live by that concept. Those that can't grasp that simple a concept would simply appear to be something other than human. After all, to be human is more than just to walk upright.

[slim 1,514]

Someone remind me again: What are we over there fighting for exactly?

Oil. Plain and simple. We are not there to change things like this.

For all of you that say this is horrible, these people are animals, etc., you're only looking at it through the "Westerner" point of view. In this part of the world, things like stoning someone to death, while not commonplace, are not unheard of either. Although it's probably "illegal" in Kurdistan (not sure of the current legality) it's probably not going to be prosecuted either. This is a region where women are viewed to be the "property" of men. Wives to husbands, daughters to fathers, and female family members to the males of the family.

As previously pointed out, this isn't an "Islam" thing. It's a regional and cultural thing.

These types of stories are reported in "our" press (here in the States and in the UK) not to gain advocacy for females in that part of the world, but to change our hearts and minds as to what type of "enemy" we're fighting.

The Middle East is an extremely complex place with a culture vastly different from our own. So when you see stories from that part of the world, view them not just from your own perspective, but from their's as well.

I believe that every human being, no matter where they happen to be, has certain inalienable rights. Human rights. To be an ally of ours, a people should understand, subscribe to and live by that concept. Those that can't grasp that simple a concept would simply appear to be something other than human. After all, to be human is more than just to walk upright.

Yes, but if we're going to proliferate all of Iraq's oil to the rest of the world so the Saudis and OPEC can raise prices for us here at home, we need upright people to be our allies, regardless of their views on killing 17-year-old girls. It's a dirty "business", but one that's necessary in our current state of affairs.

I wonder why we don't see that story on the news?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Someone remind me again: What are we over there fighting for exactly?

Oil. Plain and simple. We are not there to change things like this.

For all of you that say this is horrible, these people are animals, etc., you're only looking at it through the "Westerner" point of view. In this part of the world, things like stoning someone to death, while not commonplace, are not unheard of either. Although it's probably "illegal" in Kurdistan (not sure of the current legality) it's probably not going to be prosecuted either. This is a region where women are viewed to be the "property" of men. Wives to husbands, daughters to fathers, and female family members to the males of the family.

As previously pointed out, this isn't an "Islam" thing. It's a regional and cultural thing.

These types of stories are reported in "our" press (here in the States and in the UK) not to gain advocacy for females in that part of the world, but to change our hearts and minds as to what type of "enemy" we're fighting.

The Middle East is an extremely complex place with a culture vastly different from our own. So when you see stories from that part of the world, view them not just from your own perspective, but from their's as well.

I believe that every human being, no matter where they happen to be, has certain inalienable rights. Human rights. To be an ally of ours, a people should understand, subscribe to and live by that concept. Those that can't grasp that simple a concept would simply appear to be something other than human. After all, to be human is more than just to walk upright.

Yes, but if we're going to proliferate all of Iraq's oil to the rest of the world so the Saudis and OPEC can raise prices for us here at home, we need upright people to be our allies, regardless of their views on killing 17-year-old girls. It's a dirty "business", but one that's necessary in our current state of affairs.

I wonder why we don't see that story on the news?

You don't really wonder why, do you?

This type of thing exposes the lie that we're being fed by the gov't.

And I don't buy into this necessety argument that you are putting forth. There's absolutely nothing necessary about this. Not about this death and not about our alliance with these creatures. ** them!

Edited May 5, 2007 by ET-US2004

[cmartyn 0]

It may not be a religious thing but nobody seems to hate muslims more than other muslims. There are certain pieces of other peoples "culture" that I choose not to accept. I choose not to be tolerant of whipping rocks at kids till blood pours out of the side of their head.

Edited May 5, 2007 by cmartyn

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It may not be a religious thing but nobody seems to hate muslims more than other muslims. There are certain pieces of other peoples "culture" that I choose not to accept. I choose not to be tolerant of whipping rocks at kids till blood pours out of the side of their head.

Exactly!

[sereia 0]

it boggles my mind that you have more HONOR added to your family if you are a murderer and kill your children versus being a good, loving parent. their sense of honor is completely screwed if you ask me.

[KarenCee 3]

it boggles my mind that you have more HONOR added to your family if you are a murderer and kill your children versus being a good, loving parent. their sense of honoris completely screwed if you ask me.

That's just it....IMHO this ISN'T honour. It's about control, or being the ones in control.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

"Honor killing" is not about religion. There are ultra-conservative Jews, Christians and Sikhs who practice it, as well, altho it is not condoned by their faiths. "Shunning" is the less violent equivalent to death. Karen is right, it's about control. It's been perceived as moral and honorable because it's considered to be an effective means to discourage social upheaval by eliminating those who are disruptive to the traditional social order.

[LovinLiberia 0]

In regards to the news story, that is a very sad and sick tragedy. I feel sorry for that poor girl who died in the name of love.

[peezey 0]

It may not be a religious thing but nobody seems to hate muslims more than other muslims. There are certain pieces of other peoples "culture" that I choose not to accept. I choose not to be tolerant of whipping rocks at kids till blood pours out of the side of their head.

No one? Not the Jews that beat a Jewish woman on a bus because she refused to sit in the back? Or the ultra orthodox Jew that murdered his own Prime Minister? Or name any number of hundreds of civil wars in the 20th century alone, many of which are still ongoing, which have nothing to do with Islam. And let's not forget how many Muslims have been killed by non-Muslims throughout history.

Your thinking is warped if you think your statement is actually true.

Edited May 5, 2007 by peezey

[cmartyn 0]

I dunno, I dont think anyone hates Muslims that much. Certainly Orthodox Jews might. But there are way more Muslims beatin on each other it seems. I guess when your powerless in your environment you lash out at the nearest thing. If it happens to be the neighbours kid, shoot what the heck, have to be a man somehow.