Trump Orders Strikes on Syria Over Suspected Chemical Weapons Attack

[jg121783 3,920]

48 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Not attacking would have made him Obama 2.0 and shown Russia, Iran and Syria that they can do whatever they want with no consequences, as well as other countries that would have taken cue from it. I think this was the right move - but talking before it was not.

I'm not so sure Assad and/or the Russians were responsible for the chemical weapons attack. I just don't see a motive. Trump was pressured by someone (my guess is Bolton) to do this. He has done a lot of good but by doing this he betrayed one of his most important (in my opinion) campaign promises. And that was to stay out of conflicts that don't involve us.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

We signed treaties and pledged to eliminate chemical weapons.  Assad has proven to be a war criminal and it is up to the US and its allies to lead in this matter. It is sickening that Russia and Iran continue to standby and let this POS ruin lives just because they want a chip in the Global stakes game. We can expect no help from Russia so NATO needs to make its statement.  It does not take ground troops to deal with the situation.

 

 

2 hours ago, jg121783 said:

I'm not so sure Assad and/or the Russians were responsible for the chemical weapons attack. I just don't see a motive. Trump was pressured by someone (my guess is Bolton) to do this. He has done a lot of good but by doing this he betrayed one of his most important (in my opinion) campaign promises. And that was to stay out of conflicts that don't involve us.

You don't see the motive for Assad in eliminating his perceived enemies?  Who would have the motive? 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

 

[jg121783 3,920]

15 hours ago, Amica Nostra said:

You don't see the motive for Assad in eliminating his perceived enemies?  Who would have the motive? 

I don't see the motive for him to take actions that would provoke one of the world's most powerful militaries (the US) into attacking him. Especially when he has his enemies (ISIS) on the run and almost defeated and he knows this would just strengthen his enemies. He may be an evil person but I'm sure he is not stupid. 

 

As far as who would have the motive the so called rebels (ISIS) certainly have a stronger motive than Assad. They were on the brink of defeat now they have one of the most powerful militaries in the world acting as their air force. Not to mention the billions of dollars the military industrial complex stands to gain.

 

I am not claiming to know for sure who did this but until we have conclusive evidence Assad did this it is very reckless to send the military in. Especially against Russia which has the potential to start a nuclear conflict is someone blinks wrong. I have supported Trump on most things but this is not one of them.

[OriZ 3,157]

3 hours ago, jg121783 said:

I don't see the motive for him to take actions that would provoke one of the world's most powerful militaries (the US) into attacking him. Especially when he has his enemies (ISIS) on the run and almost defeated and he knows this would just strengthen his enemies. He may be an evil person but I'm sure he is not stupid. 

 

As far as who would have the motive the so called rebels (ISIS) certainly have a stronger motive than Assad. They were on the brink of defeat now they have one of the most powerful militaries in the world acting as their air force. Not to mention the billions of dollars the military industrial complex stands to gain.

 

I am not claiming to know for sure who did this but until we have conclusive evidence Assad did this it is very reckless to send the military in. Especially against Russia which has the potential to start a nuclear conflict is someone blinks wrong. I have supported Trump on most things but this is not one of them.

Isis didn't have access to it. I can tell you that as fact...I know you follow the news closely, but the intelligence is very clear in this situation. Backing down because of "what Russia might do" shouldn't even be an option.

 

I've had issues with alot of things Trump has done since the election...but this isn't one of them.

Edited April 16, 2018 by OriZ

[jg121783 3,920]

3 hours ago, OriZ said:

Isis didn't have access to it. I can tell you that as fact.

And what facts may I ask back up that statement?

 

3 hours ago, OriZ said:

but the intelligence is very clear in this situation.

Maybe I am missing something here but what intelligence are you talking about? I haven't seen anything reliable that definitively points the finger at Assad.

 

3 hours ago, OriZ said:

Backing down because of "what Russia might do" shouldn't even be an option.

Agreed. But when you could possibly find yourself at war with a nation that is capable of ending all life on Earth 10 times over you better be absolutely sure you have a good reason. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

[OriZ 3,157]

7 hours ago, jg121783 said:

And what facts may I ask back up that statement?

 

Maybe I am missing something here but what intelligence are you talking about? I haven't seen anything reliable that definitively points the finger at Assad.

 

Agreed. But when you could possibly find yourself at war with a nation that is capable of ending all life on Earth 10 times over you better be absolutely sure you have a good reason. 

I'm not going by news sources, I am going by what the Israeli intelligence community that has rarely been wrong says. I know a couple of people in shin bet(not a huge deal, pretty much everyone knows at least someone - a family member, friend etc) and while they're not allowed to relay any information to me directly, it definitely helps with the credibility of what is being said(since Israel officially endorsed the attack). There could be many legitimate reasons why you wouldn't be seeing anything reliable that is released to the public yet, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[jg121783 3,920]

3 hours ago, OriZ said:

I'm not going by news sources, I am going by what the Israeli intelligence community that has rarely been wrong says. I know a couple of people in shin bet(not a huge deal, pretty much everyone knows at least someone - a family member, friend etc) and while they're not allowed to relay any information to me directly, it definitely helps with the credibility of what is being said(since Israel officially endorsed the attack). There could be many legitimate reasons why you wouldn't be seeing anything reliable that is released to the public yet, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I take anything coming out of Israel regarding these matters with a grain of salt. It's no secret Israel has an anti Syria agenda and would love nothing more than to use our military to achieve their objectives. I'm gonna go with people like our Secretary of Defense who last week said point blank there is nothing linking the chemical attack to Assad. I'm not gonna go along with actions that could trigger WWIII and possibly the end of humanity as we know it based solely on what Israel says. I need something a little more concrete. I still don't see a motive for Assad to do this. In fact it works against him. But I do know the groups that this attack would give an advantage to.

[yuna628 9,688]

jg: I know you're still going to say it makes no sense and what's the motive... but does a dictator need a motive to do the things they do? Why do serial killers brutally kill? Why do despots commit mass murder? Why do terrorist regimes manage to hang on? We'd all like to somehow understand bad people and our enemies. But it's the same thing that's been going on since civilization began. He does it because he can and he will. He does it to show his power, to taunt, his ability to instill fear in his people, to ethnically cleanse some and leave a message of annihilation to the survivors. He has Russia to protect him and he knows despite all of our military might it locks us into an impossible situation. And so he knows, time and time again, he can and will always simply get away with it.

[jg121783 3,920]

3 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

jg: I know you're still going to say it makes no sense and what's the motive... but does a dictator need a motive to do the things they do? Why do serial killers brutally kill? Why do despots commit mass murder? Why do terrorist regimes manage to hang on? We'd all like to somehow understand bad people and our enemies. But it's the same thing that's been going on since civilization began. He does it because he can and he will. He does it to show his power, to taunt, his ability to instill fear in his people, to ethnically cleanse some and leave a message of annihilation to the survivors. He has Russia to protect him and he knows despite all of our military might it locks us into an impossible situation. And so he knows, time and time again, he can and will always simply get away with it.

Let's put motive aside for a minute (which is still important in this conversation) where is the concrete evidence Assad did this? I haven't seen it. Simply saying Assad probably did this because he is a ruthless dictator is not enough here.

[OriZ 3,157]

5 hours ago, jg121783 said:

I take anything coming out of Israel regarding these matters with a grain of salt. It's no secret Israel has an anti Syria agenda and would love nothing more than to use our military to achieve their objectives. I'm gonna go with people like our Secretary of Defense who last week said point blank there is nothing linking the chemical attack to Assad. I'm not gonna go along with actions that could trigger WWIII and possibly the end of humanity as we know it based solely on what Israel says. I need something a little more concrete. I still don't see a motive for Assad to do this. In fact it works against him. But I do know the groups that this attack would give an advantage to.

Hmmm you say you consume alot of news, then you should know Israel doesn't need the US to attack in Syria for it, it has done so quite successfully over 100 times in the last few years, and even the Russians can't get in the way of what needs doing. 

 

Israel doesn't have an "anti Syria" or anti anything agenda for that matter, it does what needs to be done when certain security threats exist, like transportation of different weapons to Hezbollah, creating an Iranian front, etc. I guess the main difference between us is I don't need to take it with a grain of salt because I know exactly what type of people are engaged in it. 

[JimandChristy 1,689]

16 hours ago, IDWAF said:

I'm very sure there would be a much much much extensive list for when Obama was in power and the Republicans were crying.

[jg121783 3,920]

1 hour ago, JimandChristy said:

I'm very sure there would be a much much much extensive list for when Obama was in power and the Republicans were crying.

Except I dont see very much outcry from the so called anti war left. In fact some on the left have praised Trump for this.

[jg121783 3,920]

2 hours ago, OriZ said:

Hmmm you say you consume alot of news, then you should know Israel doesn't need the US to attack in Syria for it, it has done so quite successfully over 100 times in the last few years, and even the Russians can't get in the way of what needs doing. 

Your right. They probably don't need us. They would probably prefer our boys die rather than theirs though. I am not trying to attack the people of Israel by the way. Just their corrupt government (not to say government corruption is exclusive to Israel). I still have yet to see anyone provide any solid credible evidence that Assad was behind the attacks and I am not about to take the word of the media or any government officials (even Trump) when governments and the media have a track record of being liars. Especially when the stakes are so high. I can't believe anyone is so gullible (especially Trump) to believe without question that Assad did this when the motive just isn't there. I suppose the war monger Bolton weaseling his way in the White House recently is just a big coincidence too.