The 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017

[bcking 3,157]

17 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

I disagree.

Most doctors, lawyers, professionals, business owners work A LOT.

 

14 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

60 hours performing surgery, or practicing law or accountancy is different than 60 hours flipping burgers, with all due respect.

If you flip burgers for 60 hours and you have kids to feed, then you made some seriously wrong choices in your life.

Wages are driven by market. Anyone could flip burgers, while very few highly qualified people can do open heart surgery.

I didn't mean to suggest they were the same thing. I don't believe in wage equality just based on hours worked. I also wasn't claiming wealthy people don't work a lot. I'm saying how hard someone works isn't a linear relationship with their salary. Some high paid individuals work very hard, some don't. Similarly some poor people don't work very hard, but others do. A shift at a restaurant, while potentially not as taxing mentally as surgery, is VERY hard work. You can be on your feet non-stop almost the entire time. If you do that 60 hours per work, that should be enough to support your family. Should you be paid a surgeon's salary? Of course not. On the opposite end of the spectrum - My wife in the past frequently commented on coworkers in Oil and Gas who would do around 1 hour of work in a day, and would be getting paid north of 100,000 pounds.

 

I do, however, believe that a hard working individual should be able to support their family no matter what their career. I believe that, at a minimum, you should be able to feed, cloth, house and protect your family while working 60 hours a week. I don't care if you flip burgers, clean toilets, or perform surgery. I think this should be one of the benefits of living in a wealth, advanced economy. No one who works hard should be unable to feed themselves or their children. All of those jobs need to be filled, so we should pay them fairly for it.

 

Beyond those basic necessities, of course more skilled jobs should be paid more. As I said my bigger issues are with inherited wealth and passive wealth. My father makes more money every year than I do and he doesn't work at all anymore. He just pays a financial adviser and they make him more money. They take a cut of course, but he still pulls in more yearly than I make. I'm sure I'll be in a similar position at that point in my life, but it's still a flawed system from a societal perspective, in my opinion.

Edited April 3, 2018 by bcking

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

2 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

As do most teachers, nurses, parking lot attendants, cashiers, baristas, iron workers, etc...............

With all due respect, I'm a licensed accountant and a partner at a cpa firm and I get paid very well now when I work a lot.

When I was a teenager I actually worked as bartender, barista and waiter. I worked a lot and I got paid very little.

If I were doing the same thing at 40 year old today (with 2 kids), I would not complain with the system, but I'd rather question my life choices.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

3 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

Yes, thanks. I get the difference (I'm a tax person).

But I disagree with that, unless we are talking about unrealized gains in the stock market (they are on paper until you sell).

Also, we can argue that some passive investments create very active growth (think investing in real estate).

No doubt investments drive an essential part of economic growth and  risk and smart investments deserve rewards.  What the article is pointing out is that the number of folks profiting is relatively small as a percentage.  You might argue that the number of folks in poverty is lower than it has been since the 19th century  which is remarkable considering the planet has 9 billion people.  There have also been improvements to health , nourishment , education  and welfare that have come from technology and information revolutions.

 

The point is :

This is a Macro Economic trend that we need to factor into our public and foreign policy.  We should not ignore it.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 minute ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

With all due respect, I'm a licensed accountant and a partner at a cpa firm and I get paid very well now when I work a lot.

When I was a teenager I actually worked as bartender, barista and waiter. I worked a lot and I got paid very little.

If I were doing the same thing at 40 year old today (with 2 kids), I would not complain with the system, but I'd rather question my life choices.

But you are not denying that most folks work hard.

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

With all due respect, I'm a licensed accountant and a partner at a cpa firm and I get paid very well now when I work a lot.

When I was a teenager I actually worked as bartender, barista and waiter. I worked a lot and I got paid very little.

If I were doing the same thing at 40 year old today (with 2 kids), I would not complain with the system, but I'd rather question my life choices.

There aren't enough teenagers to work all of the jobs that you seem to think are "inferior". None of us are saying you shouldn't be rewarded for working hard. Those waiters can work very hard as well and should be able to feed, cloth, shelter their families. That doesn't mean they should get paid the same as you, since as you state you are well compensated for your work. 

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by bcking

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

1 minute ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

But you are not denying that most folks work hard.

So what?

I worked very hard when I was young(er) and I didn't make much money at all.

Granted, I decided not to have kids when I was a teenager (actually till much later). I studied and climbed the ladder. And I was just a kid from a middle-class family in Italy and a relatively poor immigrant in the US who knew no one.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

There aren't enough teenagers to work all of the jobs that you seem to think are "inferior". None of us are saying you shouldn't be rewarded for working hard. Those waiters can work very hard as well and should be able to feed, cloth, shelter their families. That doesn't mean they should get paid the same as you, since as you state you are well compensated for your work. 

 

They are not inferior, I proudly worked those jobs. And I hope my kids will do the same in the future.

However, no one should make a career out of them.

[Dashinka 24,513]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

There aren't enough teenagers to work all of the jobs that you seem to think are "inferior". None of us are saying you shouldn't be rewarded for working hard. Those waiters can work very hard as well and should be able to feed, cloth, shelter their families. That doesn't mean they should get paid the same as you, since as you state you are well compensated for your work. 

 

So you agree, it is a person’s individual life choice and the amount of risk they are comfortable with that may impact their later life.  I am not sure no one said poor people, or people in lower paying jobs don’t work hard, but if they make a choice to stay there and not proceed to improve their situation, then they will still be making poor money as the market dictates.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

Just now, Italian_in_NYC said:

So what?

I worked very hard when I was young(er) and I didn't make much money at all.

Granted, I decided not to have kids when I was a teenager (actually till much later). I studied and climbed the ladder. And I was just a kid from a middle-class family in Italy and a relatively poor immigrant in the US who knew no one.

So it moots this argument.

 

"I disagree.

Most doctors, lawyers, professionals, business owners work A LOT"

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

Just now, Il Mango Dulce said:

So it moots this argument.

 

"I disagree.

Most doctors, lawyers, professionals, business owners work A LOT"

They do. And many of them are in the 1%.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

Just now, Italian_in_NYC said:

They do. And many of them are in the 1%.

So hard work and prosperity have a poor correlation.  

I would carry on with this discussion but I am late for a meeting and I made poor choices and still need to work toward retirement. 

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

6 minutes ago, bcking said:

There aren't enough teenagers to work all of the jobs that you seem to think are "inferior". None of us are saying you shouldn't be rewarded for working hard. Those waiters can work very hard as well and should be able to feed, cloth, shelter their families. That doesn't mean they should get paid the same as you, since as you state you are well compensated for your work. 

 

I am well compensated not because I am privileged or inherited money, or because my parents knew someone high up.

And working hard is a necessary condition, not a sufficient one.

If an unqualified person makes 10 and a qualified one makes 20, what should happen if you raise (by law, not driven by the market) unqualified person's wage to 20 (or even 15)?

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

2 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

So hard work and prosperity have a poor correlation.  

I would carry on with this discussion but I am late for a meeting and I made poor choices and still need to work toward retirement. 

Working hard is a necessary condition, not a sufficient one.

And even if you're a trust fund baby and don't work hard at all, it means someone before you did (we can argue on estate tax all you want).

[Dashinka 24,513]

3 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

So hard work and prosperity have a poor correlation.  

I would carry on with this discussion but I am late for a meeting and I made poor choices and still need to work toward retirement. 

I think you are forgetting the life choice factor in your simplification.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

Is it right that soccer (or basketball, football, name the pro sport of your liking) players make millions just by playing sports (although at extremely high levels)?

It's market driven. No one would pay to come see me play basketball or buy my jersey. They instead opt to go see Lebron James. It's not fair.