Putin ordered a nerve agent attack in the UK. Trump invited him to the White House anyway.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

40 minutes ago, bcking said:

This is probably the best statement in this thread and I wish I could heart it, up vote it, and give it a medal.

 

Our country is so divisive that people are willing to defend Putin because they are insecure about the association between him and Trump. 

 

Russia poisoned that man and his daughter. They put it on their door handle. In a small town in England (where my wife's family still lives actually). Putin knows it. The UK knows it. Pretty much every other country knows it. The US government knows it.

I also think that Russia is the likely responsible party. If the intelligence is so strong, why don't they share it with the public? I'm sure not everything is classified.

During the Cuban missile crisis they went to the UN and showed rockets and embarrassed the Soviet Ambassador. Why don't they show us something? Aren't there CCTV camera everywhere in the UK? Maybe they didn't capture the image of them applying the toxic substance, but I'm sure they have them somewhere else.

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

You are in the Medical area, how come they are still alive? 

Way out of my scope of practice. Can't say I've ever dealt with weaponized nerve agents (or really studied them except for maybe 1 day in clinical pharmacy in the 1st or 2nd year of medical school).

 

Many pesticides work with similar mechanisms. They mess with the acetylcholine neurotransmitter (usually they block it's breakdown, which includes the amount). You then end up with a "parasympathetic" response (Think opposite of fight/flight, "rest/relax, or "rest and digest"). In large amounts it can paralyze your muscles so you can't breath, or you can have cardiac arrest.

 

After the attack happened I recall saying to family (my wife's family mostly, since they have obviously been watching this closely considering they live within a 5 mile radius of where it all "went down") that if they hadn't died shortly after exposure, they would probably live. If you don't get consistent exposure the agents won't last long. We also do have medications that can counteract the effects.

 

Now I know very little about Novichok or whatever this particular poison was so there may be specifics related to it. 

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

I also think that Russia is the likely responsible party. If the intelligence is so strong, why don't they share it with the public? I'm sure not everything is classified.

During the Cuban missile crisis they went to the UN and showed rockets and embarrassed the Soviet Ambassador. Why don't they show us something? Aren't there CCTV camera everywhere in the UK? Maybe they didn't capture the image of them applying the toxic substance, but I'm sure they have them somewhere else.

It's my understanding that they don't have information on the individual person who planted the agent, and unfortunately we probably never will. The conclusion about the source more has to do with the specifics of the agent used, and how you would obtain it, and what you would need to be trained enough to properly handle it, plus potential motives.

 

I don't think they have CCTV cameras of the guy's house, which is where the poison was planted. A friend of my wife's family lives in the neighborhood and they commented shortly afterwards that they saw them taking the door off the house and leaving with it. Initially they were investigating the bench (which is apparently also gone now) but I think they have settled on the source as the door handle. I've been out of town the last 5 days so I can't say I'm 100% up to date though.

Edited April 3, 2018 by bcking

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

It's my understanding that they don't have information on the individual person who planted the agent. The conclusion about the source more has to do with the specifics of the agent used, and how you would obtain it, and what you would need to be trained enough to properly handle it, plus potential motives.

 

I don't think they have CCTV cameras of the guy's house, which is where the poison was planted. A friend of my wife's family lives in the neighborhood and they commented shortly afterwards that they saw them taking the door off the house and leaving with it. 

Well, then they don't have much.

Yes, you don't buy nerve gas at 7-11, but most intelligence agencies can have it or easily reproduce it (I don't think MI6 or CIA are lousy spy agencies).

Do I think Russia did it? Yes, but that counts nothing. Russia's version that MI6 or CIA did it to make them look bas is just as credible, based on what we have (or what they showed us).

On the other hand, if the CIA or MI6 knew for sure that Russia did it, then they should have just retaliated in kind by poisoning someone in Moscow.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

 

14 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

I also think that Russia is the likely responsible party. If the intelligence is so strong, why don't they share it with the public? I'm sure not everything is classified.

During the Cuban missile crisis they went to the UN and showed rockets and embarrassed the Soviet Ambassador. Why don't they show us something? Aren't there CCTV camera everywhere in the UK? Maybe they didn't capture the image of them applying the toxic substance, but I'm sure they have them somewhere else.

If you think that Russia ( Putin) is the responsible party, why reward him with the credibility that comes from a White House visit?  Trump is the new Chamberlain. 

 

 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 hours ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

A personal attack?!?!?!?

I was also thinking . what the heck

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

1 hour ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

 

If you think that Russia ( Putin) is the responsible party, why reward him with the credibility that comes from a White House visit?  Trump is the new Chamberlain. 

Peace in our time, Mango. We all need to get along.

[TBoneTX 46,060]

1 hour ago, bcking said:

planted the agent

 

1 hour ago, bcking said:

poison was planted

One thing is clear:  both should thrive if they're watered well, especially at first.

[jg121783 3,921]

1 hour ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

 

If you think that Russia ( Putin) is the responsible party, why reward him with the credibility that comes from a White House visit?  Trump is the new Chamberlain. 

 

 

So one day when it fits your narrative Trump is a war monger who is going to start WWIII and the next day when it fits your narrative he is a pacifist.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

8 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

So one day when it fits your narrative Trump is a war monger who is going to start WWIII and the next day when it fits your narrative he is a pacifist.

I guess we are going to war with Mexico, troops at the border.  

[Steeleballz 7,550]

6 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

My wife tells me that living under the socialist economic system in Russia in the 60s through the early 90s, and yes, the Russian people refer to it as socialism, was simply horrible.  

 

  My wife is Russian. I have never heard her or her freinds refer to soviet times with any other word than communism. Is it possible your wife says socialism just because she knows it makes you happy? 

 

   

   

[Steeleballz 7,550]

7 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

But yet not one word when 

 

 

or

 

   You missed the one of Bush with Saddam Hussein.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

7 hours ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

You have little knowledge of Russia.

My wife is Russian and so are my in-laws.

I lived in Russia.

Russian people know this and are fine with this. All they care is their standard of living, which vastly improved under Putin (although not quite at Western levels). The older citizens used to live in the USSR, under KGB repression.

They do not care about western standards of democracy.

And we should stop pretending everyone should be like us.

 

    Putin is very popular. The initial preliminary counts in the last election had him winning with 118% of the popular vote.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

Just now, Steeleballz said:

 

    Putin is very popular. The initial preliminary counts in the last election had him winning with 118% of the popular vote.

I don't understand the sarcasm. Putin is extremely popular in Russia, and even among Russian abroad.

Let's not be delusional. His people like him.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

4 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   You missed the one of Bush with Saddam Hussein.

This one?

 

Or this one?