California to sue Trump admin over citizenship question in 2020 census

[Steeleballz 7,550]

36 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

Same here. All they have is empty threats and intimidation. The census worker where my friend lives was on some power trip and called the police on my friend because he didn't fill in the full extended form and refused to several times when they came to his house. The police came and the census worker ended up being escorted off his property and told by the police if they come back they would be arrested for trespassing. In my case I never even heard from anyone regarding it.

 

The one bit of information they want (and have wanted since the first census) is how many eligible voters are in each household. I challenge you to show me any federal law that specifically states you must provide any more information than that and what the penalty is for not complying.

 

 

      13 U.S. Code § 221 - Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

 

       

13 U.S. Code § 221 - Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

 

 

(a)

Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

(b)

Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

(c)

Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

36 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  That's what happens when you have a lot of commodes.

Or when what you say requires you to have so many.

[Dashinka 24,767]

4 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

 

      13 U.S. Code § 221 - Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

 

       

13 U.S. Code § 221 - Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

 

 

(a)

Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

(b)

Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

(c)

Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

Honestly, I could not care less about answering the census.  I never saw a form, nor a census worker the past two, so what is the government penalty for not counting me?  Lastly, I would like to see the stats of the number of times this is enforced?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Honestly, I could not care less about answering the census.  I never saw a form, nor a census worker the past two, so what is the government penalty for not counting me?  Lastly, I would like to see the stats of the number of times this is enforced?

It’s probably not enforced at all, even though it is the law. Odd that so many people avoid the census like the plague. 

[Dashinka 24,767]

1 hour ago, spookyturtle said:

It’s probably not enforced at all, even though it is the law. Odd that so many people avoid the census like the plague. 

If I had received anything, I would have filled it out.  Not sure why we never saw a census taker, maybe they had enough count for my area.

[jg121783 3,921]

9 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title,

So what does subchapters I, II, IV and V of chapter 5 say? I'll give you a clue. Read subchapter II.

 

9 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

We're not talking about giving false information here. We are talking about not giving any information at all. Huge difference. I asked what is the penalty for not answering questions. Not what is the penalty for giving false information. Putting all this aside there is something called the 5th amendment that protects people in this situation. Last time I checked the constitution supersedes all other laws.

[yuna628 9,712]

3 hours ago, spookyturtle said:

It’s probably not enforced at all, even though it is the law. Odd that so many people avoid the census like the plague. 

Most very religious and civil libertarians will likely seek to avoid the census at all costs. Avoiding the census is something that is spread throughout the evangelical and homeschool communities. Kids are taught to fear census workers, to never open the door or respond.

 

It must be a thankless job for a census taker.

 

 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

26 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Most very religious and civil libertarians will likely seek to avoid the census at all costs. Avoiding the census is something that is spread throughout the evangelical and homeschool communities. Kids are taught to fear census workers, to never open the door or respond.

 

It must be a thankless job for a census taker.

 

 

Just for the record, do you know a lot evangelical home school families ?

 

[yuna628 9,712]

Just now, Nature Boy Flair said:

Just for the record, do you know a lot evangelical home school families ?

 

Yes, actually.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Yes, actually.

How many is "a lot"?

 

I was brought up in a religious background, and never once heard any fear mongering about census takers.   

 

That being said, I have never seen a census taker nor ever received any surveys in my life.  May be due to me moving around a fair amount,  IDK.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

16 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

How many is "a lot"?

 

I was brought up in a religious background, and never once heard any fear mongering about census takers.   

 

That being said, I have never seen a census taker nor ever received any surveys in my life.  May be due to me moving around a fair amount,  IDK.

I am sure all those evangelicals sit around all day and practice, Census taker at the door drills .. 

[spookyturtle 9,466]

3 hours ago, jg121783 said:

So what does subchapters I, II, IV and V of chapter 5 say? I'll give you a clue. Read subchapter II.

 

We're not talking about giving false information here. We are talking about not giving any information at all. Huge difference. I asked what is the penalty for not answering questions. Not what is the penalty for giving false information. Putting all this aside there is something called the 5th amendment that protects people in this situation. Last time I checked the constitution supersedes all other laws.

Where does it say Title 13, Chapter 7, Subchapter II, 221 is repealed? Because that section states the penalties you vehemently deny. 

The Constitution also calls for a Census. Keep digging, the hole is getting deep. 

[jg121783 3,921]

4 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

Where does it say Title 13, Chapter 7, Subchapter II, 221 is repealed? Because that section states the penalties you vehemently deny. 

The Constitution also calls for a Census. Keep digging, the hole is getting deep. 

I never said anything was repealed nor did I deny any penalties. I simply asked you to cite the penalty for not answering questions. You cited the penalty for false answers to questions. Big difference. Yes the constitution does call for a census. For the purpose of determining how many voters are in a given area. Exactly what subchapter II of chapter 5 states. You still have not demonstrated where the law specifically says you must answer every question on the census or what the penalty is for not doing so.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

5 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

I never said anything was repealed nor did I deny any penalties. I simply asked you to cite the penalty for not answering questions. You cited the penalty for false answers to questions. Big difference. Yes the constitution does call for a census. For the purpose of determining how many voters are in a given area. Exactly what subchapter II of chapter 5 states. You still have not demonstrated where the law specifically says you must answer every question on the census or what the penalty is for not doing so.

It’s in the first sentence. 

(a)

Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

[jg121783 3,921]

4 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

It’s in the first sentence. 

(a)

Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

This only applies within the confines of the subchapters in bold. So I ask you again what do those subchapters say?