Adjusting via B2 visa....should the law be changed?

[RLA 324]

4 minutes ago, Nemeseax said:

every AOS on B2 is different- if you would like; I can give you at least 3 different hypotetical cases.

Please do. 

[Nemeseax 36]

9 minutes ago, RLA said:

Please do. 

Okay: 

Case 1) - similar to my case: an older person near to her/ his retirement age, with good stabile life and career  ( coming from developed European country) is going for her/ his  3rd or 4th vacation in USA to visit very good  close friend ( an USC; retired older person) .During that vacation they realize how strong feelings they actually have for each other and USC just propose European-  not wanting him/ her to leave.They fill for AOS in USA; European still have ties in her/ his country and try to fix as much things as possible from USA. 

Case 2)- young smart  man from Thailand gets  ( somehow) B2 to visit his American GF ,they talk about their marriage as the only way for him to stay in USA and start sucessfully his new working career. He is not that much in love but he wants better life. Lies at POE; gets married; filling for AOS

3rd case- middle aged man from east Europe, lets say Romania; decides to just stay in USA. Lies at POE; finds; illegal low paid job,saves money, and and after few undocumented years finds poor USC woman  ; gives her money ; they got married and AOS. 

I apologize to all honest Thai and Romanian people- that were just examples. 

So you see; absolutely different cases resulting with AOS on B2.

 

[Unidentified 2,930]

8 minutes ago, Nemeseax said:

Okay: 

Case 1) - similar to my case: an older person near to her/ his retirement age, with good stabile life and career  ( coming from developed European country) is going for her/ his  3rd or 4th vacation in USA to visit very good  close friend ( an USC; retired older person) .During that vacation they realize how strong feelings they actually have for each other and USC just propose European-  not wanting him/ her to leave.They fill for AOS in USA; European still have ties in her/ his country and try to fix as much things as possible from USA. 

Case 2)- young smart  man from Thailand gets  ( somehow) B2 to visit his American GF ,they talk about their marriage as the only way for him to stay in USA and start sucessfully his new working career. He is not that much in love but he wants better life. Lies at POE; gets married; filling for AOS

3rd case- middle aged man from east Europe, lets say Romania; decides to just stay in USA. Lies at POE; finds; illegal low paid job,saves money, and and after few undocumented years finds poor USC woman  ; gives her money ; they got married and AOS. 

I apologize to all honest Thai and Romanian people- that were just examples. 

So you see; absolutely different cases resulting with AOS on B2.

 

27

And none of them should have AOSed. The first couple should have gone the K1 route. The 2nd guy shouldn't even have gotten married. 3rd I am not even going to comment on. 

[bcking 3,157]

24 minutes ago, Nemeseax said:

Okay: 

Case 1) - similar to my case: an older person near to her/ his retirement age, with good stabile life and career  ( coming from developed European country) is going for her/ his  3rd or 4th vacation in USA to visit very good  close friend ( an USC; retired older person) .During that vacation they realize how strong feelings they actually have for each other and USC just propose European-  not wanting him/ her to leave.They fill for AOS in USA; European still have ties in her/ his country and try to fix as much things as possible from USA. 

Case 2)- young smart  man from Thailand gets  ( somehow) B2 to visit his American GF ,they talk about their marriage as the only way for him to stay in USA and start sucessfully his new working career. He is not that much in love but he wants better life. Lies at POE; gets married; filling for AOS

3rd case- middle aged man from east Europe, lets say Romania; decides to just stay in USA. Lies at POE; finds; illegal low paid job,saves money, and and after few undocumented years finds poor USC woman  ; gives her money ; they got married and AOS. 

I apologize to all honest Thai and Romanian people- that were just examples. 

So you see; absolutely different cases resulting with AOS on B2.

 

Do you think any of those examples are reasonable examples of legitimate use of AOS for marriage?

 

The one that comes closest is the first one. Yes it seems, based on your story, that it was truly spontaneous. Even if it were, how about they get married, the person goes back to Europe and waits out the CR-1 like any other couple that decide to get married? Just because they decided "on a whim", why should they be able to come to the USA on a visitor visa and then stick around permanently when their fellow Europeans who chose to marry an American but want to actually plan their wedding need to wait for an application process outside the country.

 

I don't see why it's reasonable for a system to "reward" people from being spontaneous when it comes to marriage. Marriage shouldn't be spontaneous, and even if it is that's fine. But you still should have to wait just like everyone else.

Edited March 27, 2018 by bcking

[Crazy Cat 42,199]

19 minutes ago, Nemeseax said:

Okay: 

Case 1) - similar to my case: an older person near to her/ his retirement age, with good stabile life and career  ( coming from developed European country) is going for her/ his  3rd or 4th vacation in USA to visit very good  close friend ( an USC; retired older person) .During that vacation they realize how strong feelings they actually have for each other and USC just propose European-  not wanting him/ her to leave.They fill for AOS in USA; European still have ties in her/ his country and try to fix as much things as possible from USA. 

Case 2)- young smart  man from Thailand gets  ( somehow) B2 to visit his American GF ,they talk about their marriage as the only way for him to stay in USA and start sucessfully his new working career. He is not that much in love but he wants better life. Lies at POE; gets married; filling for AOS

3rd case- middle aged man from east Europe, lets say Romania; decides to just stay in USA. Lies at POE; finds; illegal low paid job,saves money, and and after few undocumented years finds poor USC woman  ; gives her money ; they got married and AOS. 

I apologize to all honest Thai and Romanian people- that were just examples. 

So you see; absolutely different cases resulting with AOS on B2.

 

1. Could have done a K-1 except they wanted to circumvent the CR-1 wait.

2.  Visa Fraud

3.  Visa Fraud

 

 

[Nemeseax 36]

Exactly the answers as I have expected and thank you. Yes I know me and my husband should do other way. Both of us have not so many years of our lives left; so we want to spend all possible time together. And somehow I can understand your disagreement. We will ( as all other ppl) have our interview so IO can very easily deny our case and I might get deported, right?

We are  ( Idk but I guess) one of the oldest couples here and do you think it is easy for my over 70 yrs old husband to memorize all that questions ( how many windows we have in our house, he has never counted, my toothbrush color, what kind of the floor we have in each room etc).No it is not easy for him at all.

But that is something we have to do and we will .

I see that some posters have already finished their journey and are " safe" - so now I am asking you honestly and directly " WHY do you even care?" Aint that better to live your life happily with your spouse and think about your future plans? 

 

[RLA 324]

Allowing people to adjust status from B2 is not a pure reward, for non-fraud cases.  The foreign spouse comes to the US unprepared, with unfinished business back home that they cannot attend to in person for at least a few months.  Restricting AoS from B2 would avoid putting people into that kind of double bind.  To mitigate the long waiting times I'd rather be a bit more generous with visitor visas for applicants.  At the minimum, when a couple has started the proper process (CR-1, K-1 ...) that shouldn't be counted as evidence that they're about to circumvent the visitor visa restrictions. 

[yuna628 9,712]

7 minutes ago, missileman said:

1. Could have done a K-1 except they wanted to circumvent the CR-1 wait.

2.  Visa Fraud

3.  Visa Fraud

 

 

 

Indeed and agreed.

 

20 minutes ago, bcking said:

Do you think any of those examples are reasonable examples of legitimate use of AOS for marriage?

 

The one that comes closest is the first one. Yes it seems, based on your story, that it was truly spontaneous. Even if it were, how about they get married, the person goes back to Europe and waits out the CR-1 like any other couple that decide to get married? Just because they decided "on a whim", why should they be able to come to the USA on a visitor visa and then stick around permanently when their fellow Europeans who chose to marry an American but want to actually plan their wedding need to wait for an application process outside the country.

 

I don't see why it's reasonable for a system to "reward" people from being spontaneous when it comes to marriage. Marriage shouldn't be spontaneous, and even if it is that's fine. But you still should have to wait just like everyone else.

Do you think anyone seriously wants to leave their gf/bf/fiancé/spouse and go back home? Of course not. It kills. I know the whys, I've heard the stories and the arguments for doing it... but I still just don't agree with it on principle. When my husband first came to visit me, technically we were friends, very best friends. I knew he was a very special guy in my life and I had such a mix of feelings and didn't know if he would feel the same way for sure. But the moment I saw him, I said, yep, that's the guy I'm going to marry someday.. and he felt the same way about me. We were very young at the time, but goodness we didn't want to say goodbye to each other, nor any of the numerous other times we visited. In the early days he didn't have much ties to home and we could have done exactly like scenario #1. But we didn't. That was our choice. And other people make other choices. I just don't find those choices in line with the system as it should work - regardless of if it is allowed or not.

 

It seems to me that visit visa overstayers and adjusters put additional harmful burdens on their fellow countrymen, by causing well meaning people to be frequently rejected due to abuse and fraud on these very visas (similar to how at some embassies even K1s can be hard to get due to high levels of fraud). It can be very difficult for some people to even visit their family and friends in the US without being subjected to harsh suspicion than others. It causes the CBP to, once again, consistently lie to people and claim they have authority over marriage when they do not.

[RLA 324]

3 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

It seems to me that visit visa overstayers and adjusters put additional harmful burdens on their fellow countrymen, by causing well meaning people to be frequently rejected due to abuse and fraud on these very visas

I wouldn't put overstayers and adjusters in the same category.  Overstaying is illegal, adjusting is not.  Somebody like Nemeseax who's come as an honest visitor is neither committing abuse nor fraud.  They're following the law and using the system as intended.  They're not causing anybody harm.  People who follow the rules do not cause other people to be suspect of breaking the rules, on the contrary.  

 

If you don't like the law you should take it out on the lawmakers, not on the people who follow the law.  

[yuna628 9,712]

3 minutes ago, RLA said:

I wouldn't put overstayers and adjusters in the same category.  Overstaying is illegal, adjusting is not.  Somebody like Nemeseax who's come as an honest visitor is neither committing abuse nor fraud.  They're following the law and using the system as intended.  They're not causing anybody harm.  People who follow the rules do not cause other people to be suspect of breaking the rules, on the contrary.  

 

If you don't like the law you should take it out on the lawmakers, not on the people who follow the law.  

Can you tell me then why the CBP routinely says ''do not marry while visiting and adjust'' and grills or throws out couples wanting to visit each other under suspicion that they intend to do exactly as Nemeseax did, especially if intent cannot be proven?

Edited March 27, 2018 by yuna628

[Steeleballz 7,550]

39 minutes ago, missileman said:

1. Could have done a K-1 except they wanted to circumvent the CR-1 wait.

2.  Visa Fraud

3.  Visa Fraud

 

 

 

   We can go back to my second post in this thread. Tons of fraud is happening on K1 too.

 

   You want to fix B2, then fix the K1 as well. If we need to make it harder for everyone to stop every case where fraud might occur, so be it. That affects people like you as well. Nothing magically trustworthy about going the K1 route. And damned if 90% of the people in this country who aren't involved with immigration don't look at it that way.

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, RLA said:

Please do. 

 

     Parents of naturalized citizen visit. One parent passes away suddenly. Other parent decides to stay and file AOS due to extreme change in circumstances. AOS approved in 3 months without interview. True story.

[Nemeseax 36]

21 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

obtaining a tourist visa for that purpose is fraud

 

Yes definetely! But remember- B2 is valid  ( in most cases) 10 years! Do I need to explain more?

[RLA 324]

1 minute ago, Nemeseax said:

Yes definetely! But remember- B2 is valid  ( in most cases) 10 years! Do I need to explain more?

The 10 years don't matter.  Not only obtaining a tourist visa would be fraudulent.  It's also fraudulent to enter on a tourist visa if you actually intend to stay.  Every type of visa has a specific, limited purpose.  Using it for any other purpose is visa fraud. 

[RLA 324]

51 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

You want to fix B2, then fix the K1 as well. If we need to make it harder for everyone to stop every case where fraud might occur, so be it. 

It's an illusion that we'd ever be able to create a visa system that's 100% impervious to fraud.  Fixing the system can only mean to improve the balance between fraud and legitimate use.  To be able to do that we'd first need some decent estimates how much and what kind of fraud there is and what damage it actually does.  There don't seem to be any, and so we're just poking into the mist.