University of Wisconsin campus pushes plan to drop 13 majors — including English, history and philosophy

[yuna628 9,676]

6 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Are they cutting history classes, or just the useless major of history that only forces folks to spend more money in college to get a useful Masters degree?

How is a history or English major useless? Just because it is useless to you it is not useless to others.

There are many undisciplined students who don't belong in college and do not apply themselves to what they are studying. They are aimless individuals with no goals in mind. This largely starts in their lower fields of education and at a young age, where the student is not taught to achieve or strive for goals, learn strong humanities along with technical options, or receive help in figuring out the big picture. Once they get to college, or are pushed into such, they haven't got a clue. But there are plenty of others in which college is an excellent fit, and these methods of study are exactly what they want to do in life, and they succeed doing it. We all are not cookie cutters clones of each other. What one considers useless in life, is what another will treasure and utilize.

[Dashinka 24,513]

31 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

How is a history or English major useless? Just because it is useless to you it is not useless to others.

There are many undisciplined students who don't belong in college and do not apply themselves to what they are studying. They are aimless individuals with no goals in mind. This largely starts in their lower fields of education and at a young age, where the student is not taught to achieve or strive for goals, learn strong humanities along with technical options, or receive help in figuring out the big picture. Once they get to college, or are pushed into such, they haven't got a clue. But there are plenty of others in which college is an excellent fit, and these methods of study are exactly what they want to do in life, and they succeed doing it. We all are not cookie cutters clones of each other. What one considers useless in life, is what another will treasure and utilize.

How many people are hired out of college with a BA in History, English, or Philosophy?  A degree in one of these is essentially useless for a couple of reasons, one, there are too many, and two, almost no employer is looking for one.  So someone with a BA in one of these degrees have little option other than to continue dumping money into a university which will take them years to recover.  It has been my experience that there are a lot of individuals in universities that have no business being there, but for some reason our society has said that you are nothing if you don't go.  I also know some plumbers and electricians that make really good money and never incurred massive school debt.  Overall, not all schools need to offer every LA majors, and it looks like UWSP is looking at what is selling and doing away with what is not.  What is wrong with that?  When I went to school, there were quite a few that didn't offer the engineering degree that I wanted, so I found one that did.  If someone really wants to be a history or English major, I am sure they can find a school to accommodate their needs.

 

[charmander 692]

I don't think History or English are useless majors but market does not need as much as the schools graduate. Most of these people go into a different line of work in the end, for instance human resources. I wouldn't stop offering classes but if the enrollment is going down and the university cannot sustain offering the degree, then it is fair to reconsider where to spend the funds. This is not the first nor the last time a degree getting dropped or the department gets merged with another.

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, charmander said:

I don't think History or English are useless majors but market does not need as much as the schools graduate. Most of these people go into a different line of work in the end, for instance human resources. I wouldn't stop offering classes but if the enrollment is going down and the university cannot sustain offering the degree, then it is fair to reconsider where to spend the funds. This is not the first nor the last time a degree getting dropped or the department gets merged with another.

I think you're exactly right.

 

I have two old friends, one history and INE English major, that both went on to use their degrees and do well. One works for a book editor, the other works for an archiving company in LA. But I know 10-15 others that did completely different things. Art majors as well...most of the ones I knew never even planned to actually do art as a career, just something they liked. I went to a small liberal arts school so they spent 40 grand a year on something they enjoyed but had no plans to use....

 

We have a need for them, but it's small and likely much smaller than the number that graduate.

[cyclone27 710]

A degree is more about showing and proving yourself when challenged. A proverbial check off box for future employers. 

 

Did my degrees help with my career? Not in the slightest but it was necessary to get my foot in the door. I think experience is far more valuable. 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by cyclone27

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

23 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Cutting English and history is a terrible idea. There's nothing wrong with adding in new programs, but those two are excellent foundations for teaching and a whole host of other career paths.

My undergrad was in English Literature, I went to law school and I ended up working in investment management before I rerouted back to the law. It was a terrific foundation for both finance and the legal profession. I can write like a ************ and I put that down to my degree in English Lit. When I chose English as a major, it was because I enjoyed my classes in the department, not because I could see any particular career path at the end of it.

 

It's preposterous to say that the main thrust of post-secondary education should be preparing a worker. If someone "fit for the workplace" emerges from the university, fantastic. But the point -- at least to me -- of higher education is to prepare human beings to engage with the world at large. Whether that is through chemistry or sociology or French Lit or studio art as a major, so be it. You may of course take what I say with a grain of salt, as my privilege granted me the luxury of choosing whatever I wanted in terms of a post-secondary education, but I believe that shaping better humans -- humans that are curious about the world, who ask questions and synthesize knowledge to better inform their decisions -- should be the ultimate goal of the university in teaching young people.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

The article didn't go into enough detail to know if they plan to axe every liberal arts class.  I made an assumption that any college (not trade school) offering primarily technical majors will still have to offer at least a few liberal art classes.

The UW has quite a few campuses so it may be that these folks need to move to Madison to complete their degree. They still intended to make sure that every student gets foundational liberal arts 

It is the leadership role that UW Stevens point will give up without majors and graduate work.  You will not get the finest minds. 

[yuna628 9,676]

42 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

How many people are hired out of college with a BA in History, English, or Philosophy?  A degree in one of these is essentially useless for a couple of reasons, one, there are too many, and two, almost no employer is looking for one.  So someone with a BA in one of these degrees have little option other than to continue dumping money into a university which will take them years to recover.  It has been my experience that there are a lot of individuals in universities that have no business being there, but for some reason our society has said that you are nothing if you don't go.  I also know some plumbers and electricians that make really good money and never incurred massive school debt.  Overall, not all schools need to offer every LA majors, and it looks like UWSP is looking at what is selling and doing away with what is not.  What is wrong with that?  When I went to school, there were quite a few that didn't offer the engineering degree that I wanted, so I found one that did.  If someone really wants to be a history or English major, I am sure they can find a school to accommodate their needs.

 

Quite a fair bit. They may not go onto roles such as a history professor, but there are plenty of jobs available for them. I know a young man that decided very early on he wanted to be a history teacher and that is exactly what he did. Both he and his now wife are highly educated professionals. He is a teacher and she runs a freelance business ontop of being an art teacher. They are happy and love what they do.

 

Another friend of mine was pretty aimless in life when I first knew him, first it was culinary arts, but eventually he settled on a music degree. It sounded like it wasn't going to be the most promising career path for him, but eventually he did teach for a little a bit. He decided eventually that his real calling was ministry. He's now a youth minister, runs a martial arts program for youth needing mentors, and has his own outreach program cooking meals for the elderly and homeless. He may have started out aimless, but he's now a focused individual that does real good for his community, and does apply his former educational experiences.

 

My husband completed his education with a BA accelerated program, that in the UK is at a master's level (you don't actually have to go for an additional masters in some unis if you can hack the accelerated course - note: it's hard!). Before he made the move, he was offered to go for a PhD and become a professor at the university. Teaching was not really what he wanted to do with his life (even though I think he's great at it). He gave that up for me. He is more educated than many of his bosses in his field of current work, and those that do have higher degrees in the upper-levels of management (in the weird catch-all of 'communication' degrees), are usually very clueless. They didn't ask him to have a degree for his current job, most places these days either want the degree or they just want an empty body with certifications and not much going on upstairs (which let me tell ya... there's dumb ones out there with those). But we have the greatest respect for those that choose history and English. They are highly critical jobs in many fields and not just education.

 

What jobs to people with BAs in these fields get? http://history.case.edu/undergraduate/what-do-history-degree/ http://blog.historians.org/category/what-to-do-with-a-ba-in-history/ There is a need for these people. Just because it is not something that is perceived as a 9-5 blue collar job, or cookie cutter corporate does not mean it does not have value or a need. The perception of aimless slacker college kids that are useless starts at a young age. If they learned nothing and had no guidance in early life, they are unlikely to produce much. Believe me, we both know kids like this on a daily basis.

 

Its great that you know plumbers and electricians that are successful at what they do. But what of it? Can't others be successful at what they want to do too? Taking on vast amounts of debt for a degree, is a problem sure. But I think that's a completely different argument as to why that is the case and how that could be fixed. There are different paths for everyone... why can't people just do what they want to do, do what they are able to do, or do what they need to do without sneering about whom has the degree or not? As long as they are successful at whatever it is, and have the tools to succeed starting at an early age... why complain about another's chosen path just because you think it's not useful to you?

 

2 minutes ago, elmcitymaven said:

My undergrad was in English Literature, I went to law school and I ended up working in investment management before I rerouted back to the law. It was a terrific foundation for both finance and the legal profession. I can write like a ************ and I put that down to my degree in English Lit. When I chose English as a major, it was because I enjoyed my classes in the department, not because I could see any particular career path at the end of it.

 

It's preposterous to say that the main thrust of post-secondary education should be preparing a worker. If someone "fit for the workplace" emerges from the university, fantastic. But the point -- at least to me -- of higher education is to prepare human beings to engage with the world at large. Whether that is through chemistry or sociology or French Lit or studio art as a major, so be it. You may of course take what I say with a grain of salt, as my privilege granted me the luxury of choosing whatever I wanted in terms of a post-secondary education, but I believe that shaping better humans -- humans that are curious about the world, who ask questions and synthesize knowledge to better inform their decisions -- should be the ultimate goal of the university in teaching young people.

I agree. Though I would point out for those kids that don't feel like college is for them, high-schools could do more to steer them into potential vocations they might enjoy or excel at. I mean we still know people languishing at community or technical college still unsure what it is they want. They aren't getting much help from the parents either. I do think that after exiting college though, they should have some sort of foundation and realistic expectations about a career. Not everyone will find the job they want, no matter what their education is. Internships can be valuable, and I think colleges that do help their students find placements is good. Universities are not the places where one is prepared to become a wielder or a factory worker nor should they be. They should expect that if they are going for a specialized degree, they are going to either have to find a specialized field, or think outside the box. You chose to apply your education on a solid career path and have great skills to be proud of, and yes not everyone has that privilege.