A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding...

[spookyturtle 9,465]

3 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

 

Read the post I quoted. You said in reply to  IDWAF, “ if you and spooky think that rich people have earned the right to break the law with little to no consequence, that’s your opinion. “  Show me where I said this.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

6 minutes ago, -Trinity- said:

What happens when someone is fined a couple times, but hasn't learned anything?

 

Don't  they loose their license? Seems fair to me. A rich person might see the fine as something they don't loose sleep over. But if the consequence is that one looses the driver's license.....no matter how much money you have or don't have....

Don't think anyone likes that; getting their license suspended.

 

Please, don’t bring logic or rational thinking to this thread. It’s like beating a swag horse to get it to sink in for some. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, spookyturtle said:

Read the post I quoted. You said in reply to  IDWAF, “ if you and spooky think that rich people have earned the right to break the law with little to no consequence, that’s your opinion. “  Show me where I said this.

i know what i said. i guess idwaf didn't do a good job explaining your opinion to me.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

6 minutes ago, bcking said:

You can make stuff up, they just end up being meaningless. I won't look to you for "predictions" for the future, if the logic used in this thread is typical of your predictions. 

 

Punishment is intended to reprimand someone and keep them from doing the same action again. We don't need deterrents for people buying groceries, or eating at restaurants. Those are all appropriate behaviors.

 

Inappropriate behaviors require punishments, and those punishments have to have meaning. A financial punishment is NOT equal without it being on a sliding scale. A 150 dollar fine given to everyone is only "equal" in the most basic sense of the term, but not for the purposes of the fine. Punishments need to have equal weight for everyone. In that sense, a fine should be adjusted to have equal impact.

 

Your reference is talking about social benefits. We are talking about punishments for illegal activity here. Different purposes, different topic. 

 

Except that a fine of 400 dollars is not the same for a millionaire as it is for a janitor. That is the basis of the entire article. That fine may mean the janitor can't buy groceries. The millionaire will never notice it missing. 

 

Fortunately we have other punishment systems in place for speeding so you're right in reality eventually everyone who is a frequent speeder will just lose their license.

 

However, I don't believe every law that is punishable by fines has a similar system in place, and this discussion doesn't just have to be focused on speeding. Speeding is just an easy example to conceptualize. 

This discussion is focused on speeding because that is what the original post was about. 

[spookyturtle 9,465]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

i know what i said. i guess idwaf didn't do a good job explaining your opinion to me.

He has nothing to do with it. You stated something that I did not say. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, spookyturtle said:

He has nothing to do with it. You stated something that I did not say. 

i summarized your opinion as it was explained to me by someone who has nothing to do with it even though the person who has nothing to do with it is who i was responding to and who brought you into it but why don't you read what i said again because i started that statement with "IF"

 

[spookyturtle 9,465]

4 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

i summarized your opinion as it was explained to me by someone who has nothing to do with it even though the person who has nothing to do with it is who i was responding to and who brought you into it but why don't you read what i said again because i started that statement with "IF"

 

My opinion is what I posted. 

[-Trinity- 513]

13 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

Please, don’t bring logic or rational thinking to this thread. It’s like beating a swag horse to get it to sink in for some. 

Apologies, I'm going back to what I was doing before I decided to put in my two cents.

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, spookyturtle said:

My opinion is what I posted. 

same.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

34 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

i'm not missing anything. i agree the punishment should be the same for everyone. a 100 dollar fine is not the same consequence for a person worth a couple hundred thousand dollars or a person worth a couple thousand. 

and meal at McDonald is a splurge for some budgets and not others. Making everyone equal has been tried repeated times and failed. Most recently the USSR.

11 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

i summarized your opinion as it was explained to me by someone who has nothing to do with it even though the person who has nothing to do with it is who i was responding to and who brought you into it but why don't you read what i said again because i started that statement with "IF"

 

I love it when people summarize stuff 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

39 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

again, i do not know how to thank you enough for explaining to me how these things work. i'm forever indebted. and if you and spooky think that rich people have earned the right to break the law with little to no consequence, that's your opinion. too entitled for my taste, as i've pointed out.

 

personal responsibility is a personal thing, has nothing to do with traffic violation revenue or deterrents toward public safety - rich or poor. scaling the fines according to income is a good idea, one that would increase revenue - if anything to offset collections efforts.

Breaking the law (preferably NOT breaking the law) boils down to personal responsibility.  I’m not saying the rich have the right to do it, I am saying the punishment needs to be equal based on the being, not on their pocketbook.  Just as I pointed out the illogicality vis-a-vis the murder example which BCKing thinks is crazy.  It IS crazy.  In a perfect world, no one would break the law.  But it’s far from perfect, and many people will break the law, every day.  

 

Continued violations (at least with speeding, DUIs, and other vehicular infractions will be dealt with by the loss of license eventually.  That’s the real deterrent; the fines are just a way to help pay for salaries and infrastructure.  So I ask this... if a poor person gets caught speeding, should he/she be allowed to maintain their drivers license for more offenses than the rich person?  Say... a poor person gets 6 speeding tickets before LoL, and a rich person only gets 3 tickets before LoL?

 

And at the opposite end of the spectrum, you would have a group of people making so little money that the local courts would have to pay them for getting a parking ticket.  I mean, fair is fair, right?

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

and meal at McDonald is a splurge for some budgets and not others. Making everyone equal has been tried repeated times and failed. Most recently the USSR.

 

a meal at mcdonalds is not a fine imposed for speeding. no one is talking about first class plane tickets or groceries or mcdonalds.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Just now, IDWAF said:

Breaking the law (preferably NOT breaking the law) boils down to personal responsibility.  I’m not saying the rich have the right to do it, I am saying the punishment needs to be equal based on the being, not on their pocketbook.  Just as I pointed out the illogicality vis-a-vis the murder example which BCKing thinks is crazy.  It IS crazy.  In a perfect world, no one would break the law.  But it’s far from perfect, and many people will break the law, every day.  

 

Continued violations (at least with speeding, DUIs, and other vehicular infractions will be dealt with by the loss of license eventually.  That’s the real deterrent; the fines are just a way to help pay for salaries and infrastructure.  So I ask this... if a poor person gets caught speeding, should he/she be allowed to maintain their drivers license for more offenses than the rich person?  Say... a poor person gets 6 speeding tickets before LoL, and a rich person only gets 3 tickets before LoL?

 

And at the opposite end of the spectrum, you would have a group of people making so little money that the local courts would have to pay them for getting a parking ticket.  I mean, fair is fair, right?

so to summarize what you said, you think rich people should be able to break the law with little or no consequences ?

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, IDWAF said:

Breaking the law (preferably NOT breaking the law) boils down to personal responsibility.  I’m not saying the rich have the right to do it, I am saying the punishment needs to be equal based on the being, not on their pocketbook.  Just as I pointed out the illogicality vis-a-vis the murder example which BCKing thinks is crazy.  It IS crazy.  In a perfect world, no one would break the law.  But it’s far from perfect, and many people will break the law, every day.  

 

Continued violations (at least with speeding, DUIs, and other vehicular infractions will be dealt with by the loss of license eventually.  That’s the real deterrent; the fines are just a way to help pay for salaries and infrastructure.  So I ask this... if a poor person gets caught speeding, should he/she be allowed to maintain their drivers license for more offenses than the rich person?  Say... a poor person gets 6 speeding tickets before LoL, and a rich person only gets 3 tickets before LoL?

 

And at the opposite end of the spectrum, you would have a group of people making so little money that the local courts would have to pay them for getting a parking ticket.  I mean, fair is fair, right?

if the fine amount is structured by income, there's no need to change when a person looses their license.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

a meal at mcdonalds is not a fine imposed for speeding. no one is talking about first class plane tickets or groceries or mcdonalds.

eating at MacDonald is a choice. So is breaking the speed limit, something I almost never do because I dont want to pay the fine and higher insurance