Trump shifts blame to violent video games, movies in gun violence discussion

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

not all mass shooters are fatherless. there's only one thing that all mass shooters have in common. but i agree with michael ian black, toxic masculinity is definitely a problem. most feminists would agree.

Finally, we can agree that none of them have any respect for human life (or may be mentally not-quite-right).

[smilesammich 10,727]

4 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Finally, we can agree that none of them have any respect for human life (or may be mentally not-quite-right).

nice try.

[bcking 3,157]

43 minutes ago, eieio said:

Suzanne Venker’s recent opinion piece on FoxNews is very, very important, because she points out that almost all of the most recent deadly mass shooters have one thing in common: fatherlessness.

She begins by pointing out a tweet after the terrible shooting in Florida last week. Actor and comedian Michael Ian Black began a series of tweets in this way, “Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken.”

Venker goes on to describe how his “tweet storm” strayed from the truth:

Unfortunately, Black quickly veered off course. “Men don’t have the language to understand masculinity as anything other than some version of a caveman because no language exists…The language of masculinity is hopelessly entwined with sexuality, and the language of sexuality in hopelessly entwined with power, agency, and self-worth…To step outside those norms is to take a risk most of us are afraid to take. As a result, a lot of guys spend their lives terrified…We’re terrified of being viewed as something other than men. We know ourselves to be men, but don’t know how to be our whole selves. A lot of us (me included) either shut off or experience deep shame or rage. Or all three. Again: men are terrified.”

Mr. Black is not the first to attack masculinity and suggest it’s at the root of all evil. Indeed, the phrase ‘toxic masculinity’ has become boilerplate language in America.

It’s not a hard sell, either. After all, it is boys and men who are typically to blame for violent acts of aggression. Ergo, testosterone—the defining hormone of masculinity—must be to blame. But testosterone has been around forever. School shootings have not.

Mr. Black is correct that boys are broken. But they’re not broken as a result of being cavemen who haven’t “evolved” the way women have. They’re broken for another reason.

They are fatherless.

 

 

Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markmeckler/2018/02/27-deadliest-mass-shooters-26-one-thing-common/#73iVZPWph2DrblPu.99

The article claims 26 of the 27 deadliest shooters were fatherless.

 

They included a link to a CNN article going through the list.

 

I only had to look at the first three on the list. Two of them, from what I could tell, had fathers during childhood (parents weren't divorced). So already the article was wrong. 

 

I stopped there.

 

(Omar Siddiqui and Seeing Hui Cho both had intact families, from what I could tell) 

 

The Columbine shooters also both had fathers in their life. So that's 4 so far. Not going to bother to keep going at this point.

Edited March 10, 2018 by bcking

[yuna628 9,712]

58 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

nor do nuns or priests, yet no one questions them when they have an opinion on either..........

I question everyone. A nun or priest has no say in my life and imo is no expert on motherhood.

 

24 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

not all mass shooters are fatherless. there's only one thing that all mass shooters have in common. but i agree with michael ian black, toxic masculinity is definitely a problem. most feminists would agree.

I follow Michael a lot. He has an interesting life story, and I think he would know a lot about childhood hardship. I wholeheartedly agree with him.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

19 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

nice try.

Oh, so you think that those who are carrying out thee mass shootings DO respect human life.  That’s a weird stance to take, but ok...

[Steeleballz 7,550]

18 minutes ago, bcking said:

The article claims 26 of the 27 deadliest shooters were fatherless.

 

They included a link to a CNN article going through the list.

 

I only had to look at the first three on the list. Two of them, from what I could tell, had fathers during childhood (parents weren't divorced). So already the article was wrong. 

 

I stopped there.

 

(Omar Siddiqui and Seeing Hui Cho both had intact families, from what I could tell) 

 

The Columbine shooters also both had fathers in their life. So that's 4 so far. Not going to bother to keep going at this point.

 

  Good you stopped, 'cause the pattern doesn't change if you keep going. 

    

[smilesammich 10,727]

6 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Oh, so you think that those who are carrying out thee mass shootings DO respect human life.  That’s a weird stance to take, but ok...

that's a poor assumption based on your previous poor assumption, my thoughts have nothing to do with that. the only thing all mass shooters have in common is guns. you might not like it, but it is what it is.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

17 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

that's a poor assumption based on your previous poor assumption, my thoughts have nothing to do with that. the only thing all mass shooters have in common is guns. you might not like it, but it is what it is.

No, it’s based on your comments, and it’s not poor.

 

And you’re right... every mass shooting has guns in common.  DUH!   But what else has guns in common?  15.7 MILLION hunters, aged 6 and up, went hunting in 2011.  37% of Americans own guns (roughly 120.6 MILLION people) today.  

Mother Jones lists 87 mass killings since 1982.  (It is VERY hard to pin down an accurate number due to the varying definitions of “mass murder”).  https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

 

Whether the number is 87 or 200, either number pales in comparison to the MILLIONS of guns out there that cause no harm, day in and day out, for the past 50 years.  Somewhere around 280-300 million guns.  121 million people who own them.  200/120 million = 0.00017% of all guns in the US being used for mass killings.  And you think GUNS are the problem?  I respectfully disagree.  You blame the guns if that is your belief.  I blame the killers.  Period.  

[bcking 3,157]

4 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

No, it’s based on your comments, and it’s not poor.

 

And you’re right... every mass shooting has guns in common.  DUH!   But what else has guns in common?  15.7 MILLION hunters, aged 6 and up, went hunting in 2011.  37% of Americans own guns (roughly 120.6 MILLION people) today.  

Mother Jones lists 87 mass killings since 1982.  (It is VERY hard to pin down an accurate number due to the varying definitions of “mass murder”).  https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

 

Whether the number is 87 or 200, either number pales in comparison to the MILLIONS of guns out there that cause no harm, day in and day out, for the past 50 years.  Somewhere around 280-300 million guns.  121 million people who own them.  200/120 million = 0.00017% of all guns in the US being used for mass killings.  And you think GUNS are the problem?  I respectfully disagree.  You blame the guns if that is your belief.  I blame the killers.  Period.  

To bring this back to the original subject...

 

Having access to guns is a risk factor. Doesn't mean most gun owners (or people with access) will end up mass killers. But it is still very likely a risk factor. 

 

A modifiable one, as well. Just like video games.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

7 minutes ago, bcking said:

To bring this back to the original subject...

 

Having access to guns is a risk factor. Doesn't mean most gun owners (or people with access) will end up mass killers. But it is still very likely a risk factor. 

 

A modifiable one, as well. Just like video games.

Modifiable.... how?

[smilesammich 10,727]

13 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

No, it’s based on your comments, and it’s not poor.

 

And you’re right... every mass shooting has guns in common.  DUH!   But what else has guns in common?  15.7 MILLION hunters, aged 6 and up, went hunting in 2011.  37% of Americans own guns (roughly 120.6 MILLION people) today.  

Mother Jones lists 87 mass killings since 1982.  (It is VERY hard to pin down an accurate number due to the varying definitions of “mass murder”).  https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

 

Whether the number is 87 or 200, either number pales in comparison to the MILLIONS of guns out there that cause no harm, day in and day out, for the past 50 years.  Somewhere around 280-300 million guns.  121 million people who own them.  200/120 million = 0.00017% of all guns in the US being used for mass killings.  And you think GUNS are the problem?  I respectfully disagree.  You blame the guns if that is your belief.  I blame the killers.  Period.  

guns are the only common factor of the mass shootings. finding patterns and commonalities are how problems are solved. thanks for the stats on responsible gun owners, i just had no idea! 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

guns are the only common factor of the mass shootings. finding patterns and commonalities are how problems are solved. thanks for the stats on responsible gun owners, i just had no idea! 

Blaming the tool is simple.  And... not very informed, to be nice.  Take away the guns, and you’d still have (X amount) of people with murderous intent.  

 

The other common factor is victims.  If EVERYONE carried a gun, those mass killings would become statistically insignificant.  See how simple that is?  And it’s every bit as wrong as your suggestion.

[smilesammich 10,727]

9 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Blaming the tool is simple.  And... not very informed, to be nice.  Take away the guns, and you’d still have (X amount) of people with murderous intent.  

 

The other common factor is victims.  If EVERYONE carried a gun, those mass killings would become statistically insignificant.  See how simple that is?  And it’s every bit as wrong as your suggestion.

and what suggestion did i make again?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, smilesammich said:

and what suggestion did i make again?

St. John’s Wort can help with that.

[bcking 3,157]

37 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Blaming the tool is simple.  And... not very informed, to be nice.  Take away the guns, and you’d still have (X amount) of people with murderous intent.  

Who wouldn't cause mass shootings? They wouldn't have the guns to do so, as you suggest.

 

Sounds an awful lot like other countries with strict gun control.

Edited March 10, 2018 by bcking