CNN thinks that socialism is cool. My grandparents from the USSR would disagree.

[Ban Hammer 13,516]

It is frustrating to me that many Americans are ignorant of the crimes of socialist and communist movements.

 

My grandmother grew up in Ukraine, which was then a part of the USSR — the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. After waking each morning, she checked to see if any of her family members died during the night. Many of her compatriots were already dead because Joseph Stalin, the Soviet leader, implemented a mass starvation program.

Known as the “Holodomor,” the goal of the policy was to starve Ukrainians into submission. It worked as intended: Stalin murdered perhaps four million Ukrainians. (For this reason and others, Ukrainians are a bit prickly when asked if their accent is Russian.)

My grandmother only escaped this torture when she, along with the Russian man who would become my grandfather, were kidnapped by the Nazis and taken to Germany as slave labor. Thus, they stopped living the Soviet Socialist dream and began experiencing the National Socialist dream, instead.

I was reminded of all this last month when CNN celebrated Martin Luther King, Jr.’s birthday with a tweet that claimed the civil rights hero “was a socialist before it was cool.” There are two substantial problems with this.

First, The Most Trusted Name in News is on historically dubious ground. Dr. King was a brilliant theologian but not an expert in political economy. His writings on the topic are contradictory. On the one hand, Dr. King wrote, “I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic”; on the other hand, he had a visceral hatred of communism, which he called “fundamentally incompatible” with Christianity in his book Strength to Love.

Second, what exactly is cool about socialism?

After the war, my grandparents understandably resisted going back to the USSR, especially since Stalin had issued Order 270, which declared Soviet prisoners of war “traitors” who should be sent to gulags. Though my grandparents weren’t soldiers, they decided that it would be wise not to find out if the policy applied to civilians. So, they pretended to be Polish and came to America. At the time, the U.S. was gladly accepting refugees from “s---hole countries.” 

It is frustrating to me that many Americans are ignorant of this history. While the crimes of the Nazis are well known, the crimes of the Soviets are not.

That explains how (likely a social media intern at) CNN can tweet about how cool socialism is. It also explains how one Buzzfeed editor wished for “full communism” for Christmas, and another Buzzfeed reporter dismissed the victims of communism as a “white nationalist talking point.”

These repulsive sentiments are surprisingly common. Indeed, it is still fashionable for intellectuals — particularly those in the cozy confines of academia who never had to suffer under it — to praise the virtues of socialism. This white-washed version of history is a moral blind spot that is the Left's equivalent of Holocaust denial.

To be fair, I think those who praise socialism do so more out of ignorance than out of malice. But ignorance is not a good excuse. Those who defend socialism today rely on flawed arguments that don’t stand up to scrutiny.

 

more at

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/02/21/cnn-thinks-socialism-cool-my-grandparents-ussr-would-disagree/349830002/

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

  Well hey good thing Bernie Sanders was stopped before he had time to carry out the planned genocide.

 

 Equating socialism with Stalin is like equating right wing conservatism with Hitler. Stalin was an absolutist, which is generally a bad thing regardless of your politics. Nelson Mandela had strong socialist beliefs. Do we think he would have murdered millions if given the chance. What about Gandhi?

 

  What Russians remember about Stalin is he was a paranoid megalomanic who used the tools of the state to murder dissidents and terrorize the population. The average person with half a brain can separate that from the political aspect of socialism.

[Dashinka 24,771]

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 12:26 AM, Steeleballz said:

  Well hey good thing Bernie Sanders was stopped before he had time to carry out the planned genocide.

 

 Equating socialism with Stalin is like equating right wing conservatism with Hitler. Stalin was an absolutist, which is generally a bad thing regardless of your politics. Nelson Mandela had strong socialist beliefs. Do we think he would have murdered millions if given the chance. What about Gandhi?

 

  What Russians remember about Stalin is he was a paranoid megalomanic who used the tools of the state to murder dissidents and terrorize the population. The average person with half a brain can separate that from the political aspect of socialism.

If you ask my wife, she calls the hellish economy that she had to live through socialism.  It started with Lenin, carried on with Stalin and all the rest.  Her life started under Kruschev, so of course no memory of Stalin, but the history of him and Lenin do paint a bad picture of how they came to power, immediately did away with anyone that was a threat, and continued to stamp out any negative talk of the "Revolution".  Seems par for the course.  Btw, considering the South Africans are debating eliminating people of a certain skin tone, is that the best example.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

If you ask my wife, she calls the hellish economy that she had to live through socialism.  It started with Lenin, carried on with Stalin and all the rest.  Her life started under Kruschev, so of course no memory of Stalin, but the history of him and Lenin do paint a bad picture of how they came to power, immediately did away with anyone that was a threat, and continued to stamp out any negative talk of the "Revolution".  Seems par for the course.  Btw, considering the South Africans are debating eliminating people of a certain skin tone, is that the best example.

 

   Do you remember the genocide that happened in Canadian provinces when the socialist NDP got elected? No you probably don't cause it didn't happen. Absolute idiocy in this article trying to link Bernie Sanders and his supporters to Stalin. 

 

   If you know your Russian history, you know how bad Stalin was. Just like you know how bad Ivan the terrible was. Socialism is not the link they have in common. Absolute power combined with evil people tends to lead to bad things happening. Regardless of how they got there.

[-Trinity- 513]

Funny, Netherlands has always considered itself a socialist country. I had no idea I grew up with Stalinist ideas. I guess making sure citizens don't suffer from poverty is a crime.

 

Must be a socialist lie that they rank high as being one of the happiest and wealthiest country. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by -Trinity-

[JimandChristy 1,689]

Socialism is not Communism, every first world country has Socialism even the USA.

[Dashinka 24,771]

22 minutes ago, -Trinity- said:

Funny, Netherlands has always considered itself a socialist country. I had no idea I grew up with Stalinist ideas. I guess making sure citizens don't suffer from poverty is a crime.

 

Must be a socialist lie that they rank high as being one of the happiest and wealthiest country. 

Is their economy based on the government controlling economic capital?  If not, they are not a socialist country.  Sure, there are many solcialist programs all over the EU that currently are backed by capitalism.  I suspect the Netherlands is similar.

[Dashinka 24,771]

7 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

Socialism is not Communism, every first world country has Socialism even the USA.

Correct, Communism is a political system whereas socialism is an economic system.  Many countries that adopt communism usually also adopt socialism as their economic system going as far as confiscating all the economic capital and ending private ownership of property.  Of course there are differences such as China that had the advantage of seeing how the USSR fared and started adopting capitalistic ideals.

[Dashinka 24,771]

2 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Do you remember the genocide that happened in Canadian provinces when the socialist NDP got elected? No you probably don't cause it didn't happen. Absolute idiocy in this article trying to link Bernie Sanders and his supporters to Stalin. 

 

   If you know your Russian history, you know how bad Stalin was. Just like you know how bad Ivan the terrible was. Socialism is not the link they have in common. Absolute power combined with evil people tends to lead to bad things happening. Regardless of how they got there.

Complete socialism has never succeeded as an economic system.  However event history of the countries that are currently or have already transitioned to a pure socialist economy head in a downward spiral.  Canada is not a good example as even when the NDP took power, there was enough of a minority that kept the country capitalist.  If they had a leader like Stalin, or Lenin, or those crackpots in Venezuela, they would have worked to eliminate the opposition and take over all power.

[-Trinity- 513]

11 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Is their economy based on the government controlling economic capital?  If not, they are not a socialist country.  Sure, there are many solcialist programs all over the EU that currently are backed by capitalism.  I suspect the Netherlands is similar.

That's why you can't say 'socialism" is bad. Russian socialism is different from Western European socialism.
It is based on the same ideology though.

 

To answer your question;  the  Dutch government used to own the housing, gas and oil companies, healthcare and other branches.

Over the last 10/15 years most have been reorganized, and aren't controlled by the government, at least not directly.
The  Dutch liberals and the Christian Democrats, which are slightly on the right side of the political spectrum, wanted a more capitalistic economy.

So most of what used to be controlled by the government is now private sector.

Nonetheless, most of the policies in the Netherlands are based on socialism. 

 

 

[-Trinity- 513]

30 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

Socialism is not Communism, 

Basically this. 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Correct, Communism is a political system whereas socialism is an economic system.  Many countries that adopt communism usually also adopt socialism as their economic system going as far as confiscating all the economic capital and ending private ownership of property.  Of course there are differences such as China that had the advantage of seeing how the USSR fared and started adopting capitalistic ideals.

...but kept the communist party and now perpetual presidency

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Complete socialism has never succeeded as an economic system.  However event history of the countries that are currently or have already transitioned to a pure socialist economy head in a downward spiral.  Canada is not a good example as even when the NDP took power, there was enough of a minority that kept the country capitalist.  If they had a leader like Stalin, or Lenin, or those crackpots in Venezuela, they would have worked to eliminate the opposition and take over all power.

 

  I'm not a fan of Russian communism either but as others have said, there's a big difference between that and democratic socialism that exists in other countries.

 

 As far as leaders go, the same thing could happen anywhere, regardless of the political system. Hitler rose to power in a parliamentary democracy. It's not a function of socialism, but it is more likely to happen under authoritarian or totalitarian regimes. Communist Russia was both socialist and authoritarian. To say by extension that all socialist countries are the same is a logical fallacy. There is no basis for that premise, which is why it fails.

[Dashinka 24,771]

10 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  I'm not a fan of Russian communism either but as others have said, there's a big difference between that and democratic socialism that exists in other countries.

 

 As far as leaders go, the same thing could happen anywhere, regardless of the political system. Hitler rose to power in a parliamentary democracy. It's not a function of socialism, but it is more likely to happen under authoritarian or totalitarian regimes. Communist Russia was both socialist and authoritarian. To say by extension that all socialist countries are the same is a logical fallacy. There is no basis for that premise, which is why it fails.

All the reading I have done regarding the Democratic Socialism idea seems a bit far fetched.  Sure, they claim to be against central planning (for the most part), and totalitarianism, but they say we have to transform corporations to be run by the employees?  How does that happen without some form of government action and subsequent oversight?  Additionally, how are actual decisions made and risks reviewed if there are thousands of voices clamoring with different opinions?  I know, it all sounds great in theory, but execution of this plan would face many hurdles that I am not sure anyone has contemplated.  Sure, it is a nice debate, and hopefully it stays that way.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

All the reading I have done regarding the Democratic Socialism idea seems a bit far fetched.  Sure, they claim to be against central planning (for the most part), and totalitarianism, but they say we have to transform corporations to be run by the employees?  How does that happen without some form of government action and subsequent oversight?  Additionally, how are actual decisions made and risks reviewed if there are thousands of voices clamoring with different opinions?  I know, it all sounds great in theory, but execution of this plan would face many hurdles that I am not sure anyone has contemplated.  Sure, it is a nice debate, and hopefully it stays that way.

 

    Visit one of the countries below. Here is a list of the 10. Some nice places. Not all are the hell holes you imagine them to be. 

• China
• Denmark
• Finland
• Netherlands
• Canada
• Sweden
• Norway
• Ireland
• New Zealand
• Belgium