America's war on tourist

[Reynaldo 0]

Brazil has a very specific constitution when it comes to stupid things like this.

The money to upgrade the system exist, but the current system works fine (and we also have bigger fish to fry) .

Edited May 1, 2007 by Reynaldo

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I'm gonna guess that everyone who thinks that fingerprinting is the answer to our prayers did not endure delays at AOS pending FBI namecheck. If you had, you would know what a joke fingerprinting really is.

[Anna C. 4]

So what about the iris scan? Why and when did that happen?????

[Mrs.J06 4]

I don't see why being fingerprinted is considered to be "humiliating".

But I agree that POE officials could be more friendly while going through the procedures which most visitors are certainly willing to endure if being treated nice and with respect.

About the iris scan, isn't that just a picture they take with those mini-cams?

[Otto 83]

To suggest people getting fingerprinted as they enter the US is keeping tourists away is absurd. And we (the US) don't hold the patent on rude/unfriendly behavior at airports (or other POEs) either. And not every POE is JFK-like....

As for the use of fingerprinting (or other biometric technologies) - so far, they are simply a record of that person entering the country - a physical, unique and identifiable record. It's not a record check or deterrent but simply a record of who came into the country. It's not CSI/TV-Land technology...

Several other things have occurred since 2001 that might account for lower tourist visits to the US - such as the introduction of the Euro (2002), possibly higher unemployment in Europe (and other places) which might make people want to/need-to stay closer to home on holidays... Likewise, now that the dollar is lagging behind other European markets, we should see more visitors in the future..

Just a different perspective....

[natty bumppo 297]

Brazil has a very specific constitution when it comes to stupid things like this.

The money to upgrade the system exist, but the current system works fine (and we also have bigger fish to fry) .

And the status of those being fingerprinted at POE is ?

"The Power of Congress to Exclude Aliens

The power of Congress “to exclude aliens from the United States and to prescribe the terms and conditions on which they come in” is absolute, being an attribute of the United States as a sovereign nation. “That the government of the United States, through the action of the legislative department, can exclude aliens from its territory is a proposition which we do not think open to controversy. Jurisdiction over its own territory to that extent is an incident of every independent nation. It is a part of its independence. If it could not exclude aliens, it would be to that extent subject to the control of another power.... The United States, in their relation to foreign countries and their subjects or citizens, are one nation, invested with powers which belong to independent nations, the exercise of which can be invoked for the maintenance of its absolute independence and security throughout its entire territory."

http://supreme.justia.com/constitution/art.../36-aliens.html

I believe brazil also fingerprints many different nationalities of people. I've been fingerprinted at POE in brazil and chances are Alex was too.

[Alex+R 0]

Brazil has a very specific constitution when it comes to stupid things like this.

The money to upgrade the system exist, but the current system works fine (and we also have bigger fish to fry) .

And the status of those being fingerprinted at POE is ?

"The Power of Congress to Exclude Aliens

The power of Congress “to exclude aliens from the United States and to prescribe the terms and conditions on which they come in” is absolute, being an attribute of the United States as a sovereign nation. “That the government of the United States, through the action of the legislative department, can exclude aliens from its territory is a proposition which we do not think open to controversy. Jurisdiction over its own territory to that extent is an incident of every independent nation. It is a part of its independence. If it could not exclude aliens, it would be to that extent subject to the control of another power.... The United States, in their relation to foreign countries and their subjects or citizens, are one nation, invested with powers which belong to independent nations, the exercise of which can be invoked for the maintenance of its absolute independence and security throughout its entire territory."

http://supreme.justia.com/constitution/art.../36-aliens.html

I believe brazil also fingerprints many different nationalities of people. I've been fingerprinted at POE in brazil and chances are Alex was too.

No, never. They only introduced fingerprinting for a short time to "get back at" the US for making Brazilians do it (same reason we need a visa). They've stopped that now.

[natty bumppo 297]

To suggest people getting fingerprinted as they enter the US is keeping tourists away is absurd. And we (the US) don't hold the patent on rude/unfriendly behavior at airports (or other POEs) either. And not every POE is JFK-like....

As for the use of fingerprinting (or other biometric technologies) - so far, they are simply a record of that person entering the country - a physical, unique and identifiable record. It's not a record check or deterrent but simply a record of who came into the country. It's not CSI/TV-Land technology...

Several other things have occurred since 2001 that might account for lower tourist visits to the US - such as the introduction of the Euro (2002), possibly higher unemployment in Europe (and other places) which might make people want to/need-to stay closer to home on holidays... Likewise, now that the dollar is lagging behind other European markets, we should see more visitors in the future..

Just a different perspective....

remember during xmas '06, all the news stories about the rush of people coming from the UK to the US to buy things due to the cheap flights and favorable exchange rates? wonder how many stayed home in the UK because of fingerprinting concerns?

[natty bumppo 297]

Brazil has a very specific constitution when it comes to stupid things like this.

The money to upgrade the system exist, but the current system works fine (and we also have bigger fish to fry) .

And the status of those being fingerprinted at POE is ?

"The Power of Congress to Exclude Aliens

The power of Congress “to exclude aliens from the United States and to prescribe the terms and conditions on which they come in” is absolute, being an attribute of the United States as a sovereign nation. “That the government of the United States, through the action of the legislative department, can exclude aliens from its territory is a proposition which we do not think open to controversy. Jurisdiction over its own territory to that extent is an incident of every independent nation. It is a part of its independence. If it could not exclude aliens, it would be to that extent subject to the control of another power.... The United States, in their relation to foreign countries and their subjects or citizens, are one nation, invested with powers which belong to independent nations, the exercise of which can be invoked for the maintenance of its absolute independence and security throughout its entire territory."

http://supreme.justia.com/constitution/art.../36-aliens.html

I believe brazil also fingerprints many different nationalities of people. I've been fingerprinted at POE in brazil and chances are Alex was too.

No, never. They only introduced fingerprinting for a short time to "get back at" the US for making Brazilians do it (same reason we need a visa). They've stopped that now.

Chances are it actually had more to do with how badly the POEs were managed which resulted in the brazil gov'ts response. it was more a treatment issue than the procedures.

Edited May 1, 2007 by Natty Bumppo

[Alex+R 0]

Brazil has a very specific constitution when it comes to stupid things like this.

The money to upgrade the system exist, but the current system works fine (and we also have bigger fish to fry) .

And the status of those being fingerprinted at POE is ?

"The Power of Congress to Exclude Aliens

The power of Congress “to exclude aliens from the United States and to prescribe the terms and conditions on which they come in” is absolute, being an attribute of the United States as a sovereign nation. “That the government of the United States, through the action of the legislative department, can exclude aliens from its territory is a proposition which we do not think open to controversy. Jurisdiction over its own territory to that extent is an incident of every independent nation. It is a part of its independence. If it could not exclude aliens, it would be to that extent subject to the control of another power.... The United States, in their relation to foreign countries and their subjects or citizens, are one nation, invested with powers which belong to independent nations, the exercise of which can be invoked for the maintenance of its absolute independence and security throughout its entire territory."

http://supreme.justia.com/constitution/art.../36-aliens.html

I believe brazil also fingerprints many different nationalities of people. I've been fingerprinted at POE in brazil and chances are Alex was too.

No, never. They only introduced fingerprinting for a short time to "get back at" the US for making Brazilians do it (same reason we need a visa). They've stopped that now.

Chances are it actually had more to do with how badly the POEs were managed which resulted in the brazil gov'ts response. it was more a treatment issue than the procedures.

Hm, they did actually make a statement that they were doing it just because the US did it.

[cartaverde 12]

my husband was fingerprinted and iris scanned several times during the process for getting this visa and green card.

of course, the process to make sure he wasn't an unsavoury type took 7 months to clear for AOS alone. (He was first fingerprinted at his embassy interview 9 months prior to FBI clearance, and had been fingerprinted at POE when visiting the US after the K-1 had been filed and a full 15 months prior to FBI clearance.)

I really don't think the fingerprinting people at POE does much to keep the terrorists out.

Of all the fingerprints and iris scans, how many terrorists can they spot? Probably not many.

Would having asked fingerprints from these 9/11 people have helped? Probably not. Most had a valid visa (and most could have entered under visa waiver due to being Saudi Arabian). I think their fingerprints would have just ended in file .. if they don't exist there for so,me other reason already.

[Alex+R 0]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1231-02.htm

From this 2003 article:

A Brazilian judge has announced that US citizens will be fingerprinted and photographed on entering the country. Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva was reacting to US plans to do the same to Brazilians entering the United States.

He made the order after a Brazilian government office filed a complaint in a federal court over the new US immigration measures.

From 5 January, travelers from all countries which need a visa to enter the US will undergo the same checks.

[Reynaldo 0]

No, never. They only introduced fingerprinting for a short time to "get back at" the US for making Brazilians do it (same reason we need a visa). They've stopped that now.

Chances are it actually had more to do with how badly the POEs were managed which resulted in the brazil gov'ts response. it was more a treatment issue than the procedures.

Nope, the day after the American gov't said that foreign nationals had to be fingerprinted at the POE to get into the US, the Brazilian gov't passed a bill that required all Americans to be fingerprinted at the POE in Brazil.

And they didn't have the electronic fingerprint thingy for the first 3 months. It seems that the delivery of those machines was delayed due some "bureaucracy"...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Read up on "Reciprocity" on the State Dept website as it pertains to immigration. While I don't think this is the real reasoning here - it suggests that immigration fees are charged to foreign nationals merely because US citizens are charged by foreign governments for the same privilege.

[cartaverde 12]

To suggest people getting fingerprinted as they enter the US is keeping tourists away is absurd. And we (the US) don't hold the patent on rude/unfriendly behavior at airports (or other POEs) either. And not every POE is JFK-like....

As for the use of fingerprinting (or other biometric technologies) - so far, they are simply a record of that person entering the country - a physical, unique and identifiable record. It's not a record check or deterrent but simply a record of who came into the country. It's not CSI/TV-Land technology...

Several other things have occurred since 2001 that might account for lower tourist visits to the US - such as the introduction of the Euro (2002), possibly higher unemployment in Europe (and other places) which might make people want to/need-to stay closer to home on holidays... Likewise, now that the dollar is lagging behind other European markets, we should see more visitors in the future..

Just a different perspective....

remember during xmas '06, all the news stories about the rush of people coming from the UK to the US to buy things due to the cheap flights and favorable exchange rates? wonder how many stayed home in the UK because of fingerprinting concerns?

They probably didn't stay home for the fingerprinting concerns.

But if they had been previously in the country, and were treated very unpleasantly at immigration and other queues while arriving to the country, or even sent home straight away, probably they don't bother any more coming again. The same as when you go to a nice store or a restaurant and they treat you very badly for nothing that you have done to them, you probably won't go back to that store or restaurant voluntarily but take your money elsewhere. When the store is treating you like you like a thief and a bum, and they are rude for you. Why would you go there, even if it was your favorite brand store? They obviously don't want you, don't care for their customer service or their image, and you are better off spending your money elsewhere.

Weirdly enough, the most pleasant time with the US immigration queue I have had was in 2000. I had a bad migraine, the long was very long, so it took at least 40 minutes. My head was hurting badly enough to barely stay at my feet, and I was about to throw up all the way on the queue.