CRBA Physical Presence Exceptions?

[OmarStuck 24]

Hey guys,

 

I am a US citizen and my wife is a non-US citizen. I went to the embassy to apply for a CRBA for my daughter and they recommended me not to submit because it will get rejected because I do not have physical presence proof living two years after the age of 14.

 

I had lived in the US for 15 years since I was born and then I moved to Qatar with my family. I got married to a non-US citizen and were recently blessed with a baby girl. I am currently working at a US public university here in Qatar. The embassy told me that my work does not count as physical presence and they require a travel order (?) for it to count. My work is considered as a American Institution of Research (https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-11261/0-0-0-30960/0-0-0-31192.html).

 

This is in the CRBA document (https://eforms.state.gov/Forms/ds2029.PDF):

26 and 27. Time spent abroad in U.S. Armed Forces, in other U.S. Government employment, with qualifying international organization, or as a dependent child of a person so employed: Official documentation of relevant periods of service from the appropriate governmental department or international organization must be presented. For names of qualifying organizations, consult the U.S. embassy or consulate.

 

According to the US embassy in Switzerland (https://ch.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/citizenship-services/birth/physical-presence/): 

"Service in the U.S. armed forces, employment with the U.S. government and/or employment with an international organization abroad (as defined in Section I of the International Organizations Immunities Act)"

 

Could somebody clarify if the American Institutions of Research count as those organizations that qualify for proof of physical presence?

 

Thank You

Omar

 

 

[caliliving 606]

You need to be in the USA 2 years after 14. Were you? You said you left at 15 therefore you did not. 

 

 

[OmarStuck 24]

3 minutes ago, caliliving said:

You need to be in the USA 2 years after 14. Were you? You said you left at 15 therefore you did not. 

 

 

 

I did not. My understanding on the above is that some employment outside of the US could count as physical proof. Could you help me with this?

[caliliving 606]

6 minutes ago, OmarStuck said:

 

I did not. My understanding on the above is that some employment outside of the US could count as physical proof. Could you help me with this?

No your work does not qualify. 

You need to move back yourself for 2 years or move back and establish domicile and bring your family. 

This needs to be done before your child turns a certain age...honestly. .it's good you are trying to figure it out now. 

[OmarStuck 24]

2 minutes ago, caliliving said:

No your work does not qualify. 

You need to move back yourself for 2 years or move back and establish domicile and bring your family. 

This needs to be done before your child turns a certain age...honestly. .it's good you are trying to figure it out now. 

Could you provide me a list of organizations that do count? As stated here in bullet g? (https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-9696.html)

 

"a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act (59 Stat. 669; 22 U.S.C. 288) by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date;" 

 

What does this bullet point mean?

[Mark88 183]

46 minutes ago, caliliving said:

No your work does not qualify. 

You need to move back yourself for 2 years or move back and establish domicile and bring your family. 

This needs to be done before your child turns a certain age...honestly. .it's good you are trying to figure it out now. 

That won't help, since only the time before birth counts. Even considering doing this now would help absoulte nothing.

 

1 hour ago, OmarStuck said:

...For names of qualifying organizations, consult the U.S. embassy or consulate....

Your answers lies here in this information. If the embassy in Doha doesn't have your university on your list, your physical presence won't count.

 

A lot of times foreign subsidaries of universities are not directly part of it's American parent university. Kind of like McDonalds franchising out their name: Just because a McDonalds in Germany has the same name, it belongs to McDonalds Germany Inc. and not to McDonalds Inc in the USA. This means eventhough the university might hold the name and logo, it is its own legal, seperate subsidairy in Doha and not part of a US mission.

[OmarStuck 24]

Just now, Mark88 said:

That won't help, since only the time before birth counts. Even considering doing this now would help absoulte nothing.

 

Your answers lies here in this information. If the embassy in Doha doesn't have your university on your list, your physical presence won't count.

 

A lot of times foreign subsidaries of universities are not directly part of it's American parent university. Kind of like McDonalds franchising out their name: Just because a McDonalds in Germany has the same name, it belongs to McDonalds Germany Inc. and not to McDonalds Inc in the USA. This means eventhough the university might hold the name and logo, it is its own legal, seperate subsidairy in Doha and not part of a US mission.

I fully understand. I tried to get a list from the embassy but they did not have a list.

 

My salary comes directly from the main university. I receive a W2 form directly from the main university. I am considered a state employee and my salary is on the internet (as per state regulations). 

[Mark88 183]

1 minute ago, OmarStuck said:

I fully understand. I tried to get a list from the embassy but they did not have a list.

 

My salary comes directly from the main university. I receive a W2 form directly from the main university. I am considered a state employee and my salary is on the internet (as per state regulations). 

 

And what did they say when you presented them with this evidence?

[OmarStuck 24]

1 minute ago, Mark88 said:

 

And what did they say when you presented them with this evidence?

I presented them my W2 which clearly is from the employer. They told me that you need to show us a "travel order" that says that you were sent from the US to work in Qatar. There is no such document from the university.  

 

[Mark88 183]

And you won't get one, since a travel order is imho only issued by the US military. Did you talk to one consul or more? Ask for an appointment with his/her supervisor and present the evidence with the print out of the law you posted.

[OmarStuck 24]

4 minutes ago, Mark88 said:

And you won't get one, since a travel order is imho only issued by the US military. Did you talk to one consul or more? Ask for an appointment with his/her supervisor and present the evidence with the print out of the law you posted.

That is what I understood about the travel order.

 

I talked to one consul and she brought her supervisor. The first one wanted to reject my application because I do not have the two years of residence after the age of 14. I insisted on my employment counting and she got her supervisor.

 

The supervisor then told me that my employment wouldn't count unless I bring a travel order. I could go again but I want to make sure that the organizations on the AIR list count before I go again. 

[Mark88 183]

What does HR from your university say about issuing a travel order? Maybe there is such a thing...

[JFH 12,190]

You won’t get a travel order because you don’t qualify for one. A travel order would apply if someone, living in the USA and working as an employee for a certain government agency or institution, was ordered by the government agency or institution to take up a post overseas - like the military being sent to Europe, for example. It’s when people left the country to go overseas purely because the organization they work for told them to. 

 

Your departure from the USA was not ordered by your employer. You are a resident of Qatar and took the position as a local. That’s no different from a person in Qatar who has never been to the USA taking a position with the same organization. 

[OmarStuck 24]

21 minutes ago, JFH said:

You won’t get a travel order because you don’t qualify for one. A travel order would apply if someone, living in the USA and working as an employee for a certain government agency or institution, was ordered by the government agency or institution to take up a post overseas - like the military being sent to Europe, for example. It’s when people left the country to go overseas purely because the organization they work for told them to. 

 

Your departure from the USA was not ordered by your employer. You are a resident of Qatar and took the position as a local. That’s no different from a person in Qatar who has never been to the USA taking a position with the same organization. 

I have not spoken to the HR yet because my interview was on Thursday (Friday and Saturday are weekends).

 

But I agree with JFH on the above.

[milimelo 4,475]

Why didn’t you contact your US HR? They work on Fridays.