Florida School Shooting

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

and the swamp gets deeper..........

3 Broward County Police Officers Made No Attempt to Enter the School and Stop Nikolas Cruz

 

Scot Peterson, the Marjory Stoneman Douglas school resource officer who declined to confront alleged mass killer Nikolas Cruz in the midst of his attack, wasn't alone in remaining safely away from the massacre: three Broward County sheriff's deputies waited outside the school as well.

When Coral Springs police officers arrived on scene, they discovered several officers who "had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles...and not one of them had gone into the school," according to a CNN report that described the Coral Springs officers as "stunned and upset" to discover that no one else in law enforcement had dared to take on the shooter.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/23/3-broward-county-police-officers-made-no

[spookyturtle 9,466]

You had cops avoiding engaging the shooter and they are trained for this. And people think that teachers should be armed? 

[Neonred 3,569]

1 hour ago, spookyturtle said:

 And people think that teachers should be armed? 

After giving some thought on the subject of arming our nation's teachers...I can only see this as a logistical nightmare. No.1 .. it would have to be on a vetted voluntary basis. There are many teachers who are as flaky as many of their students. No.2 ... who is going to provide the guns, ammo, and training? Teachers are already expected to provide a bunch of school supplies whose students have parents who won't. No.3 ...Should they conceal, or open carry? Many teachers have spoiled brats in their class who intimidate the teachers,and wouldn't hesitate to take the gun away from a teacher in a fit of rage. No.4...Do the teachers pick up their gun from a locked gun safe in the Principal's office every morning? Or are they allowed to take them home, possibly for range practice over the weekend? No. 5... This would all require a rigorous set of protocols carefully thought out by a commission of tactical experts. Armed guards stationed at the schools is a pricey option. All because people won't pay attention to the few disturbed young people who have brought us to this point. Just say'in'..

[spookyturtle 9,466]

32 minutes ago, Neonred said:

After giving some thought on the subject of arming our nation's teachers...I can only see this as a logistical nightmare. No.1 .. it would have to be on a vetted voluntary basis. There are many teachers who are as flaky as many of their students. No.2 ... who is going to provide the guns, ammo, and training? Teachers are already expected to provide a bunch of school supplies whose students have parents who won't. No.3 ...Should they conceal, or open carry? Many teachers have spoiled brats in their class who intimidate the teachers,and wouldn't hesitate to take the gun away from a teacher in a fit of rage. No.4...Do the teachers pick up their gun from a locked gun safe in the Principal's office every morning? Or are they allowed to take them home, possibly for range practice over the weekend? No. 5... This would all require a rigorous set of protocols carefully thought out by a commission of tactical experts. Armed guards stationed at the schools is a pricey option. All because people won't pay attention to the few disturbed young people who have brought us to this point. Just say'in'..

Agreed. Arming teachers would be a nightmare and a disaster waiting to happen. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Yeah, I agree.  Teachers with guns could be a big disaster.  Unless it was beefy bouncer types who volunteered, that is.

[-Trinity- 513]

2 hours ago, spookyturtle said:

You had cops avoiding engaging the shooter and they are trained for this. And people think that teachers should be armed? 

Isn't that ironic? 

 

 

[Boiler 45,553]

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

[TBoneTX 45,328]

At Mini-Bone's haircut today, he got a clip and I read a magazine.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

15 hours ago, spookyturtle said:

You had cops avoiding engaging the shooter and they are trained for this. And people think that teachers should be armed? 

they made a choice not to confront the shooter, whereas teachers in the school may not have the luxury of making that choice.

[Dashinka 24,517]

16 hours ago, spookyturtle said:

You had cops avoiding engaging the shooter and they are trained for this. And people think that teachers should be armed? 

I am curious to see what the SOP is for something like this down in Broward County.  I know the press is castigating these guys for staying outside, but these are not Secret Service officers sworn to put their life on the line for someone.  Also, can you imagine if they did enter the school with guns blazing how the press would react if there were anyone other than the shooter hurt or killed by their actions.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

6 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I am curious to see what the SOP is for something like this down in Broward County.  I know the press is castigating these guys for staying outside, but these are not Secret Service officers sworn to put their life on the line for someone.  Also, can you imagine if they did enter the school with guns blazing how the press would react if there were anyone other than the shooter hurt or killed by their actions.

 

  Eventually there were 4 deputies who didn't go in. Hard to see the SOP not allowing them to go in at that point.

 

  The sheriffs reaction seems to indicate the initial officer should have went in though. 

[Boiler 45,553]

10 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I am curious to see what the SOP is for something like this down in Broward County.  I know the press is castigating these guys for staying outside, but these are not Secret Service officers sworn to put their life on the line for someone.  Also, can you imagine if they did enter the school with guns blazing how the press would react if there were anyone other than the shooter hurt or killed by their actions.

[Dashinka 24,517]

8 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Eventually there were 4 deputies who didn't go in. Hard to see the SOP not allowing them to go in at that point.

 

  The sheriffs reaction seems to indicate the initial officer should have went in though. 

How many cops that are part of an initial response run right into a chaotic scene like that?  I am always hearing stories here in Michigan where police are on a scene for hours of a potential hostage situation.  Like I said, I would like to see the SOPs for this, but everyone is treating these guys and the sheriff as cowards, etc.  My only point is I would like to know the entire story first.  As to the first guy, I thought he was supposed to actually be stationed in the building, not sitting somewhere outside.  If someone has knowledge of the SOPs in Broward, please send me the link, I haven't seen them yet.

 

 

 

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

How many cops that are part of an initial response run right into a chaotic scene like that?  I am always hearing stories here in Michigan where police are on a scene for hours of a potential hostage situation.  Like I said, I would like to see the SOPs for this, but everyone is treating these guys and the sheriff as cowards, etc.  My only point is I would like to know the entire story first.  As to the first guy, I thought he was supposed to actually be stationed in the building, not sitting somewhere outside.  If someone has knowledge of the SOPs in Broward, please send me the link, I haven't seen them yet.

 

 

 

 

 

   I agree, not jumping to conclusions, just speculating. Since Columbine though the standard training has been rapid response to engage an active shooter as soon as possible. If they followed that protocol, it would fit what the sheriff said, that the first officer should have engaged. 

 

   Often the resource officer is outside at the beginning and end of the day or at specific times. Many schools here, the officer becomes a parking lot or traffic monitor. It's possible the shooter, being a former student, was aware of that also.