Florida School Shooting

[JimandChristy 1,689]

1 minute ago, Sonea said:

 

The one thing I will agree with Jim on is that the AR 15 designers are quoted as saying they didn't expect it would sell on the civilian market. Sullivan is quoted as saying he didn't think it would sell. He is also quoted as saying he is happy his design did do well on the market however.

 

I'm also aware that as soon as Colt bought the design and started manufacturer, a civilian "sporter" was right next to the military versions of the m16. Which means Colt producted the design from the get go for the civilian market.

The AR-15 was for military use, it was used in the Vietnam War. Civilians don't need one, it was created and designed for the military.

[Sonea 138]

5 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

The AR-15 was for military use, it was used in the Vietnam War. Civilians don't need one, it was created and designed for the military.

The AR15 was immediately sold to both the military and civilian markets by colt. Its primary designer (Sullivan) is quoted as saying he is happy with its commercial sales and was surprised. Stoner (who was less involved with the AR 15 and more the AR10) is dead and has never publicly stated how he felt about the commercial market.

 

Back to the key question. What makes the AR 15 specifically for war? Its just one rifle, so what component is it that applies across other "weapons of war" that you might want out of civilian hands.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Sonea

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

OMG

Edited February 23, 2018 by IDWAF

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

11 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

The AR-15 was for military use, it was used in the Vietnam War. Civilians don't need one, it was created and designed for the military.

Can you shoe us an example or a valid link where it was used in the Vietnam war, please?

[JimandChristy 1,689]

3 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

#fakenews

 

Seriously, just stop.  The AR-15 was never used by the US military.

Know your history

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15 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

The AR-15 was for military use, it was used in the Vietnam War. Civilians don't need one, it was created and designed for the military.

the below was also designed for the military and used by the military.  i have one and it's a heck of a deer rifle.

Just now, JimandChristy said:

Know your history

the ar-15 was never used in vietnam.  the m-16, yes........

[Sonea 138]

6 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Can you shoe us an example or a valid link where it was used in the Vietnam war, please?

At this point, I think we should probably drop the AR15 / M16 distinction. Yes they are different, technically the AR 15 as originally designed was never used in the military because its semiauto only. Jim gets thats.

 

I'm trying to wrestle what exactly makes the AR 15 a weapon of war in his mind.

 

Mechanically the AR 15 simplified earlier designs. Its bolt carrier group, locking lug layout, and materials were all revolutionary for their time. None of that makes it more lethal though than earlier semi-auto guns. It makes it more efficient to manufacture and service than older rifles as well as lighter.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Sonea

[JimandChristy 1,689]

15 minutes ago, Sonea said:

The AR15 was immediately sold to both the military and civilian markets by colt. Its primary designer (Sullivan) is quoted as saying he is happy with its commercial sales and was surprised. Stoner (who was less involved with the AR 15 and more the AR10) is dead and has never publicly stated how he felt about the commercial market.

 

Back to the key question. What makes the AR 15 specifically for war? Its just one rifle, so what component is it that applies across other "weapons of war" that you might want out of civilian hands.

The fact it can cause a lot of damage in a very short space of time. It's not rocket science. Why do you think most of these mass shooters don't use a 9mm or a shot gun?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

9 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

Know your history

So you have nothing?  

 

Ever hear of the M-16?    It WAS used in the Vietnam war.  The AR-15 was not.

 

6 minutes ago, Sonea said:

At this point, I think we should probably drop the AR15 / M16 distinction. Yes they are different, technically the AR 15 as originally designed was never used in the military because its semiauto only. Jim gets thats.

 

I'm trying to wrestle what exactly makes the AR 15 a weapon of war in his mind.

 

Mechanically the AR 15 simplified earlier designs. Its bolt carrier group, locking lug layout, and materials were all revolutionary for their time. None of that makes it more lethal though than earlier semi-auto guns. It makes it more efficient to manufacture and service than older rifles as well as lighter.

I promise you that Jim does NOT get that.

Edited February 23, 2018 by IDWAF

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

3 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

Why do you think most of these mass shooters don't use a 9mm or a shot gun?

because they are too dumb to realize that a shotgun is more lethal?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

The fact it can cause a lot of damage in a very short space of time. It's not rocket science. Why do you think most of these mass shooters don't use a 9mm or a shot gun?

Because both weapons are very short range, and most people who decide to kill others have zero courage.  But I promise you, both a 9mm and a shotgun can cause a metric buttload of damage in a very short time.  The 9mm shoots just as fast as an AR-15, did you know THAT?

[cyclone27 710]

Pump action shotgun extremely lethal. I know it will  leave a very big hole for those that might encounter it. 

[Sonea 138]

7 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

The fact it can cause a lot of damage in a very short space of time. It's not rocket science. Why do you think most of these mass shooters don't use a 9mm or a shot gun?

A semiauto box magazine shotgun would cause more damage in a short space of time. They have a smaller marketshare and are expensive so they probably aren't in a mass shooters eyes when shopping. 9mm isn't a rifle cartridge, that being said in a carbine, you would still see roughly the same level of carnage and they have been used in mass shootings. (I think Columbine) 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Sonea

[Sonea 138]

I just checked - Columbine was a 9mm carbine + a pair of shotguns.

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