Florida School Shooting

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

let me know when you join reality. better yet, go tell survivors of gun violence there's no such thing. that's like saying..there's no such thing as domestic violence. no such thing as gun violence yet we keep record of gun violence statistics. 

All you need to know is man lived in the garden of eden until a Woman screwed it up, then abel killed cain with a rock

 

Its been hard ever since

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, JimandChristy said:

Which is why on average having a gun in the home does more harm than good. Your own gun is more likely to be used against you than the ninjas that attack at night.

#fakenews, and only a fool would believe such poppycock.

 

40% of households in America today have guns.  The population of the US is going up, not down.  Fact.

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

All you need to know is man lived in the garden of eden until a Woman screwed it up, then abel killed cain with a rock

 

Its been hard ever since

yeah. i'm an atheist. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

21 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

let me know when you join reality. better yet, go tell survivors of gun violence there's no such thing. that's like saying..there's no such thing as domestic violence. no such thing as gun violence yet we keep record of gun violence statistics. 

Show me one single violent gun, and we can discuss your side of it.

 

Domestic violence refers to a person being violent inside a home, not the home itself being the root cause.  Let’s hope no one starts calling for a ban on assault homes.

 

We cannot have a rational discussion because you will only see it from an emotional standpoint, not a logical one.  I understand there is a lot of room for emotions when someone dies, and not saying that’s a bad thing, but there has to be rational and logical thought applied as well.  As I have said before in this thread, if there were an easy solution, we would have done it already.  But until we can remove the ill intent of criminals, we will always have situations like this shooting.  Whether it is one murder with a knife, two murders with an axe, three murders with a hammer, or 17 murders with a gun, the root cause is nearly impossible to control.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by IDWAF

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Show me one single violent gun, and we can discuss your side of it.

 

Domestic violence refers to a person being violent inside a home, not the home itself being the root cause.  Let’s hope no one starts calling for a ban on assault homes.

 

We cannot have a rational discussion because you will only see it from an emotional standpoint, not a logical one.  I understand there is a lot of room for emotions when someone dies, and not saying that’s a bad thing, but there has to be rational and logical thought applied as well.  As I have said before in this thread, if there were an easy solution, we would have done it already.  But until we can remove the ill intent of criminals, we will always have situations like this shooting.  Whether it is one murder with a knife, two murders with an axe, three murders with a hammer, or 17 murders with a gun, the root cause is nearly impossible to control.

 

 

you're the one saying gun violence doesn't exist, you might want to let the us department of justice know they're just emotional.  https://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/Pages/welcome.aspx

as far as you giving me parameters to discuss 'my side' - i'm good. let me know when you check back into real life.

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

43 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

As I said previously, for personal reasons using a gun was not an option for me or my family. That's just not something that's comfortable for you and I understand. I have carried a knife before and pepper spray, and I bought a knife and heavy duty multi-tool for my husband that he is allowed to take on campus (as there are restrictions). He did not receive any active shooter training, beyond a short video (and there have so far been no drills) - so I asked him what he would do in that scenario? He says he memorizes the floorplan of the building all the time, to find areas where he could run, hide, or fortify. Currently the only way staff can contact security is to get to a phone in a hallway - but what if a shooter had already entered a classroom or was in the hallway? We've discussed ways he could modify a new tech system to create something that the teacher could use to press a hidden button to alert.

If you’re not willing to live with the decision to kill someone, there there is no reason to have a gun for home protection.  Same goes for hunting and sport shooting.  And I applaud you for knowing that about yourself and making the best decision for you and your family.  Not everyone should own a gun, even if they may legally do so.  Just as not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, or a pilot, etc.  Heck, some shouldn’t even have a drivers license, but that’s another topic.

 

Taking a human life is a very heavy responsibility.  One I am personally willing to take, but I know I will have to live with it forever.   Even if it is a justified shooting, I know I will relive that moment over and over.  That burden is certainly not for everyone, and there is nothing wring with it, and no shame in knowing it and avoiding it.

 

On the other hand, if one of my family members were ever to be killed, and I did nothing about it, I think that would hurt me more than the knowledge of killing a criminal.  So I opt to have guns, and hope that I will die one day and never had to pull one against another human being.  That is me, and I don’t expect everyone to feel the same way.  

 

I hope you are never faced with needing one and not having it, that would be an awful tragedy.  But I also would never try to get you to own a gun just because it works for me.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

5 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

you're the one saying gun violence doesn't exist, you might want to let the us department of justice know they're just emotional.  https://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/Pages/welcome.aspx

as far as you giving me parameters to discuss 'my side' - i'm good. let me know when you check back into real life.

 

 

I am just fine with real life.  Been doing it longer than you, so have a tad more experience with it.  My reality is not your reality, I get that.  In your view, guns are the problem.  In my view, the person behind the gun is the problem.  It really is that simple.  

 

And thank you for that link, which shows gun crime is on the decline for many years.  Looks like we are getting a better handle on crimes with guns.

Edited February 22, 2018 by IDWAF

[Sonea 138]

Just now, IDWAF said:

If you’re not willing to live with the decision to kill someone, there there is no reason to have a gun for home protection.  Same goes for hunting and sport shooting.  And I applaud you for knowing that about yourself and making the best decision for you and your family.  Not everyone should own a gun, even if they may legally do so.  Just as not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, or a pilot, etc.  Heck, some shouldn’t even have a drivers license, but that’s another topic.

 

Taking a human life is a very heavy responsibility.  One I am personally willing to take, but I know I will have to live with it forever.   Even if it is a justified shooting, I know I will relive that moment over and over.  That burden is certainly not for everyone, and there is nothing wring with it, and no shame in knowing it and avoiding it.

 

On the other hand, if one of my family members were ever to be killed, and I did nothing about it, I think that would hurt me more than the knowledge of killing a criminal.  So I opt to have guns, and hope that I will die one day and never had to pull one against another human being.  That is me, and I don’t expect everyone to feel the same way.  

 

I hope you are never faced with needing one and not having it, that would be an awful tragedy.  But I also would never try to get you to own a gun just because it works for me.

I disagree. I am gunowner. I don't own them with the idea I may need to kill someone. I own them for sport and historical collecting. I keep them in a safe at all times when not in use and rely on a home alarm. While I am not saying a person has no right to have them for self defense, I just want to point out that there are those of us who have them for other purposes.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 minute ago, Sonea said:

I disagree. I am gunowner. I don't own them with the idea I may need to kill someone. I own them for sport and historical collecting. I keep them in a safe at all times when not in use and rely on a home alarm. While I am not saying a person has no right to have them for self defense, I just want to point out that there are those of us who have them for other purposes.

Absolutely!  I was just replying to Yuna, about her lack of desire to ever own guns.  I mentioned hunting, shooting for sport, etc.  Self defense is but one other reason to own them.

 

Some of my guns are in a safe, some are not. Some stay loaded 24/7, and within easy reach.  To each their own, and as I said, I would never encourage someone to change their views on “if” or “why” to own a gun.

[Boiler 45,553]

36 minutes ago, AshMarty said:

Haha. I made my husband promise if he ever gets robbed that he would not pull this kind of maneuver, because I truly believe he would try.

 

My husband made a good argument last time I was in Australia with him.

 

I had less of a chance getting hurt when swimming around the Great Barrier Reef with the possibility of sharks than walking around Baltimore. Haha.

 

So in the end I went snorkeling because he made a valid point. 

I do not think banning knives, or as I prefer to call the Assault Knives, requires a constitutional amendment so much easier to do.

 

Perhaps start there are see how it goes?

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

6 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I do not think banning knives, or as I prefer to call the Assault Knives, requires a constitutional amendment so much easier to do.

 

Perhaps start there are see how it goes?

said knife must be black so it looks scary.

[smilesammich 10,727]

14 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

I am just fine with real life.  Been doing it longer than you, so have a tad more experience with it.  My reality is not your reality, I get that.  In your view, guns are the problem.  In my view, the person behind the gun is the problem.  It really is that simple.  

 

And thank you for that link, which shows gun crime is on the decline for many years.  Looks like we are getting a better handle on crimes with guns.

correction, in my view - the person with ill intent having easy access to a gun is the problem.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

 

same rifle, different stocks.
same caliber as the ar-15

maybe if the ar-15 had brown plastic people wouldn't hate it................

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

7 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

correction, in my view - the person with ill intent having easy access to a gun is the problem.

Ok, that is better all around.  I think it will be impossible to identify near enough people with ill intent prior to them getting a gun to ever make a difference.  

 

So now we have to restrict access without violating the 2nd amendment.  Therein lies the rub.  

 

This kid gave warning signs that were ignored.  He COULD have been stopped, but multiple failures allowed him to succeed. 

 

The Vegas dude, he would never have shown up on anyone’s radar.  Unless I am forgetting some detail about Vegas, how could we have prevented that without going against the 2nd?

 

And no, I don’t expect you to provide the perfect answer to this.  It doesn’t seem to exist.  Just laying it all out for consideration.

Edited February 22, 2018 by IDWAF

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

 

maybe if the ar-15 had brown plastic people wouldn't hate it................

 

So you’re saying guns are racist now?  Man, we have come a long way...