Florida School Shooting

[Dashinka 24,793]

1 minute ago, JimandChristy said:

But any form of gun control is a no go. There's no compromise at all when it comes to guns themselves. Pro gun advocates aren't even willing to give up semi automatics yet they would still have a wide range of guns available to them. It must just be pure selfishness.

We have many forms of gun control today don't we?  A lot of laws, and a lot of questionable enforcement, but I am sure your new laws will be perfect.

[yuna628 9,713]

The police were contacted over 30 times and he received some sort of evaluation from social services. This is on them and every person who lived with him that allowed him to have or provided him with weapons (again he had weapons he shouldn't have had legally). After doing some digging on the Baker Act it doesn't seem like the school even actually had that action option under application of FL law. The school seems to have followed procedure in notifying staff about his behavior and later expelling him. I would have perhaps gone further by notifying all parents, but I don't believe that the school has the authority to do much more under the law.

[smilesammich 10,727]

8 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Still don't understand the bigger picture I see, but whatever.

explain it to me then, what's the bigger picture? we're not allowed to comment on guns unless we're gun nuts and own a bunch of them. we're not allowed to say certain guns aren't really necessary, or fall under the umbrella of 'protection/self defense'. we can't look at how other comparable societies deal with guns/terror. from my pov, there is no big picture except 'muh guns' 

[Dashinka 24,793]

2 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

The police were contacted over 30 times and he received some sort of evaluation from social services. This is on them and every person who lived with him that allowed him to have or provided him with weapons (again he had weapons he shouldn't have had legally). After doing some digging on the Baker Act it doesn't seem like the school even actually had that action option under application of FL law. The school seems to have followed procedure in notifying staff about his behavior and later expelling him. I would have perhaps gone further by notifying all parents, but I don't believe that the school has the authority to do much more under the law.

Did the school contact the police, or were these referrals coming from others outside the school?

[Dashinka 24,793]

Just now, smilesammich said:

explain it to me then, what's the bigger picture? we're not allowed to comment on guns unless we're gun nuts and own a bunch of them. we're not allowed to say certain guns aren't really necessary, or fall under the umbrella of 'protection/self defense'. we can't look at how other comparable societies deal with guns/terror. from my pov, there is no big picture except 'muh guns' 

Who is a gun nut.  Here is a little secret, I have never owned a gun and currently have no plans to, although I have been considering it.  However, I will fight for the Constitution every time since this wonderful documents limits the federal and in some ways state government.  I wish the MDL would fight for the 2nd amendment as much as they claim to fight for the 1st (we all know that is a false claim).  None of the suggestions here by those on the MDL address the real root cause, but instead we will get more laws that may or may not be enforced (prosecutorial discretion), and criminals like this guy in Florida will continue to ignore the laws.  By your logic, if the guns were magically unavailable to this guy he would not be a criminal, not sure that is valid logic.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

5 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

We have many forms of gun control today don't we?  A lot of laws, and a lot of questionable enforcement, but I am sure your new laws will be perfect.

Gun control in this country? It is minimal compared to the rest of the first world. Just look at the pathetic actions, of the Republicans in Florida who voted down a bill just to debate a ban on assault weapons hours after a school shooting. 

[JimandChristy 1,689]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Who is a gun nut.  Here is a little secret, I have never owned a gun and currently have no plans to, although I have been considering it.  However, I will fight for the Constitution every time since this wonderful documents limits the federal and in some ways state government.  I wish the MDL would fight for the 2nd amendment as much as they claim to fight for the 1st (we all know that is a false claim).  None of the suggestions here by those on the MDL address the real root cause, but instead we will get more laws that may or may not be enforced (prosecutorial discretion), and criminals like this guy in Florida will continue to ignore the laws.  By your logic, if the guns were magically unavailable to this guy he would not be a criminal, not sure that is valid logic.

Then why does it magically work in the rest of the first world? Mass shootings, school shootings are negligible and they have mentally ill people, they have criminals.

 

Easy access to guns is the obvious answer.

Edited February 21, 2018 by JimandChristy

[Dashinka 24,793]

2 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

Gun control in this country? It is minimal compared to the rest of the first world. Just look at the pathetic actions, of the Republicans in Florida who voted down a bill just to debate a ban on assault weapons hours after a school shooting. 

Aren't there kitchens knives that can be used as an assault weapon?

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

Who is a gun nut.  Here is a little secret, I have never owned a gun and currently have no plans to, although I have been considering it.  However, I will fight for the Constitution every time since this wonderful documents limits the federal and in some ways state government.  I wish the MDL would fight for the 2nd amendment as much as they claim to fight for the 1st (we all know that is a false claim).  None of the suggestions here by those on the MDL address the real root cause, but instead we will get more laws that may or may not be enforced (prosecutorial discretion), and criminals like this guy in Florida will continue to ignore the laws.  By your logic, if the guns were magically unavailable to this guy he would not be a criminal, not sure that is valid logic.

i didn't say you were a gun nut. reread what i wrote.

i don't feel the need to fight for the 2nd amendment. the 2 amendment exists and no one is trying to take people's guns away - unless they shouldn't have access to them in the first place. i don't have a problem with the 2nd, i do have a problem with putting the 2nd above people's right to live.

by my logic if guns were magically unavailable to this guy..there wouldn't be 17 dead of gunshot wounds.

[Dashinka 24,793]

Just now, JimandChristy said:

Then why does it magically work in the rest of the first world? Mass shootings, school shootings are negligible and they have mentally ill people, they have criminals.

Maybe folks in the other parts of the world have a better respect for human life than what the kids here in the US have?

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

Maybe folks in the other parts of the world have a better respect for human life than what the kids here in the US have?

how would that be?

[Dashinka 24,793]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

i didn't say you were a gun nut. reread what i wrote.

i don't feel the need to fight for the 2nd amendment. the 2 amendment exists and no one is trying to take people's guns away - unless they shouldn't have access to them in the first place. i don't have a problem with the 2nd, i do have a problem with putting the 2nd above people's right to live.

by my logic if guns were magically unavailable to this guy..there wouldn't be 17 dead of gunshot wounds.

Not really sure anyone here puts any amendment above human life with the exception for those that have lost their lives while in service of this county, but in that case it is self-sacrifice.  How do you know this guy wouldn't have bought a truck and rammed the school crowd when school was letting out?  The guy is a criminal with no respect for human life, he was going to kill those he felt "dissed" him gun or no gun.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

Aren't there kitchens knives that can be used as an assault weapon?

What do kitchen knives have to do with guns? Equating knives, cars,  etc etc is ridiculous and is just a strawman argument to justifying having guns.

[Dashinka 24,793]

2 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

how would that be?

We seem to have a very unhealthy respect for human life in this country as evidenced by the number of killings here.  I know, the MDL logic says that if the guns were gone this would not happen, I am not so certain of that.

1 minute ago, JimandChristy said:

What do kitchen knives have to do with guns? Equating knives, cars,  etc etc is ridiculous and is just a strawman argument to justifying having guns.

You were talking about "assault weapons"  any weapon used against someone in an assault is by definition an assault weapon.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

5 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Maybe folks in the other parts of the world have a better respect for human life than what the kids here in the US have?

I think you are doing a massive disservice to the kids here. The problem is the adults (NRA, who were once advocates of gun control, politicians bought by the NRA) not the kids.