Florida School Shooting

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

12 minutes ago, Sonea said:

This is in part why it should be limited in scope. If you were say like Cruz who purchases on their 18th birthday and the exam makes him ineligible, it places a temporary hold on his NICS record. It could be for three years or five. The easiest way to run the exam is the local ATF field office. Cost would be part of an under 25 licensing system.

I can agree more with this.  Actually, what I would love to see is the CURRENT laws being enforced.  Domestic viloence on your record?  No gun for at least 10 years with a clean record.  The key part here is that the domestic violence actually GETS ON your record so the ATF and gun shops can see it.  (Thinking about the AF shooter who should have had it on his record).  

 

Have a prescription filled for any mood ameliorating drugs, and either a purchase ban, or at a minimum, the requirement of being cleared by a psych doc after further examination has been accomplished.

 

The threats on social media have to be reported by friends or family, mostly.  But a valid report of wanting to shoot up a school should be handled as pretty serious stuff, IMO.  (A bit more latitude should be had for random comments such as “I could have killed my husband for doing x, y, or z.)

 

Ammo limiting? It will never change a thing.  A single box of bullets, no more than three, and all the damage can be done.  

 

AR-15 ban? Ditto, won’t make a difference.  

 

Keep this Cruz kid off the television and out of MSM.  Don’t make him any sort of martyr as you bury him for life in a cell or with a death penalty.  He shot, he scored, now he just needs to disappear for good.  

[yuna628 9,713]

2 hours ago, IDWAF said:

I disagree with a psychological exam in order to purchase a gun for several reasons, not the least of which is false positives.

 

But let's look at this option for a moment.  When & where will the exam be conducted? How far in advance of the intended purchase?  Will the exam be covered by insurance?  How much will it cost the buyer?  Will this exam be accessed as a database at the federal level?  For how long will said exam be valid?  If a person fails to qualify to own a gun, what other restrictions should be imposed?  (Travel,  purchasing a car, renting a vehicle, buying medical marijuana?)

 

Let's say a person is tested and found not worthy.   But said person knows nothing is wrong with them.  It's a false positive, or a simple misdiagnosis.  What now?  How do they go about clearing their good name?

False positives may happen. There may also be some people that are missed too. But my hope is that we could come up with some sort of decent system. Sonea suggest other countries have one that works, why are we too afraid to at least study it and see where we could make some improvements?

1 hour ago, Sonea said:

This is in part why it should be limited in scope. If you were say like Cruz who purchases on their 18th birthday and the exam makes him ineligible, it places a temporary hold on his NICS record. It could be for three years or five. The easiest way to run the exam is the local ATF field office. Cost would be part of an under 25 licensing system.

No problem with any of that. Sounds reasonable and fair.

1 hour ago, IDWAF said:

I can agree more with this.  Actually, what I would love to see is the CURRENT laws being enforced.  Domestic viloence on your record?  No gun for at least 10 years with a clean record.  The key part here is that the domestic violence actually GETS ON your record so the ATF and gun shops can see it.  (Thinking about the AF shooter who should have had it on his record).  

 

Have a prescription filled for any mood ameliorating drugs, and either a purchase ban, or at a minimum, the requirement of being cleared by a psych doc after further examination has been accomplished.

 

The threats on social media have to be reported by friends or family, mostly.  But a valid report of wanting to shoot up a school should be handled as pretty serious stuff, IMO.  (A bit more latitude should be had for random comments such as “I could have killed my husband for doing x, y, or z.)

 

Ammo limiting? It will never change a thing.  A single box of bullets, no more than three, and all the damage can be done.  

 

AR-15 ban? Ditto, won’t make a difference.  

 

Keep this Cruz kid off the television and out of MSM.  Don’t make him any sort of martyr as you bury him for life in a cell or with a death penalty.  He shot, he scored, now he just needs to disappear for good.  

If the current law isn't being enforced, why is that the case? No problem much with any of the above either. However, keep in mind it's always going to be difficult about the reporting of stuff online. Social media companies try to police what they can, but mostly it is a limited team of overworked and traumatized people having to deal with some of the most sickest stuff you'll ever see. Still, I think they should take some responsibility to do more. In the old days, these kids would say this crazy stuff on forums, and a team would try to remove or ban or try and deal with it after having personal knowledge of a poster's general behavior. At some point we even had an account to act as a councilor for depressed or anti-social kids.  On social media, you may be waiting months to see any action and may never see it at all. It's all impersonal and nearly impossible to police effectively. Police rarely take anything said on social media seriously these days, unless the parents haul them in. In the UK stuff online is taken more seriously, but privacy rights and free speech advocates are always concerned. 

[Ban Hammer 13,550]

[TBoneTX 46,122]

11 hours ago, IDWAF said:

I disagree with a psychological exam in order to purchase a gun for several reasons, not the least of which is false positives.

 

But let's look at this option for a moment.  When & where will the exam be conducted? How far in advance of the intended purchase?  Will the exam be covered by insurance?  How much will it cost the buyer?  Will this exam be accessed as a database at the federal level?  For how long will said exam be valid?  If a person fails to qualify to own a gun, what other restrictions should be imposed?  (Travel,  purchasing a car, renting a vehicle, buying medical marijuana?)

 

Let's say a person is tested and found not worthy.   But said person knows nothing is wrong with them.  It's a false positive, or a simple misdiagnosis.  What now?  How do they go about clearing their good name?

These are all sticky wickets.  HIPAA requirements would also come into play.

If a lawyer filed on behalf of a denied would-be buyer, would the prohibition against buying be lifted until resolution of the case?

10 hours ago, IDWAF said:

Keep this Cruz kid off the television and out of MSM.

Again, this might be the solution to the root of the problem.

[Dashinka 24,793]

Thought this was an interesting wrinkle.

 

"We're not compromising school safety.  We're really saving the lives of kids," boasted Michaelle Valbrun-Pope, executive director of Student Support Initiatives for Broward County Public Schools, in August 2017.

Valbrun-Pope was referring to what an article by Jeffrey Benzing in Public Source calls the "Broward County Solution."  As Benzing relates, Broward County used to lead the state of Florida in sending students to the state's juvenile justice system.  County leaders responded with a perfectly progressive solution: "lower arrests by not making arrests."

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/did_the_progressive_broward_county_solution_cost_17_student_lives.html

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Thought this was an interesting wrinkle.

 

"We're not compromising school safety.  We're really saving the lives of kids," boasted Michaelle Valbrun-Pope, executive director of Student Support Initiatives for Broward County Public Schools, in August 2017.

Valbrun-Pope was referring to what an article by Jeffrey Benzing in Public Source calls the "Broward County Solution."  As Benzing relates, Broward County used to lead the state of Florida in sending students to the state's juvenile justice system.  County leaders responded with a perfectly progressive solution: "lower arrests by not making arrests."

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/did_the_progressive_broward_county_solution_cost_17_student_lives.html

the issue of juvenile incarceration, and the progress states have made regarding lowering the number of juveniles introduced to the adult prison system - is based on science. if you want to create hardened criminals - stick kids in the pic and they'll most likely never get out. the most opportune time for turning an endangered person's life around and getting them on the right path is  during youth, the younger the better. the shooter in this instance appears to have flown under the radar and no one noticed enough to help him. you can't arrest kids for being 'weird' or saying anti social things or being an outcast.

[Dashinka 24,793]

23 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

the issue of juvenile incarceration, and the progress states have made regarding lowering the number of juveniles introduced to the adult prison system - is based on science. if you want to create hardened criminals - stick kids in the pic and they'll most likely never get out. the most opportune time for turning an endangered person's life around and getting them on the right path is  during youth, the younger the better. the shooter in this instance appears to have flown under the radar and no one noticed enough to help him. you can't arrest kids for being 'weird' or saying anti social things or being an outcast.

Yes, sweeping issues under the rug is a great thing to do.  Sounds like this guy in Florida turned into a hardened criminal with this program, oh that's right, it was the guns fault.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

Yes, sweeping issues under the rug is a great thing to do.  Sounds like this guy in Florida turned into a hardened criminal with this program, oh that's right, it was the guns fault.

it's not about sweeping issues under the rug. it's about recognizing that introducing juveniles to the prison system is most often unnecessary and ultimately does more harm than good. if this shooter had not been able to legally get his hands on a gun, 17 people wouldn't' be dead. but let's ignore that fact because 'muh guns'

[Dashinka 24,793]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

it's not about sweeping issues under the rug. it's about recognizing that introducing juveniles to the prison system is most often unnecessary and ultimately does more harm than good. if this shooter had not been able to legally get his hands on a gun, 17 people wouldn't' be dead. but let's ignore that fact because 'muh guns'

If he had been incarcerated, he wouldn't have shot up 17 people.  Where is Spooky and his Two Wrongs proverb?

 

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

If he had been incarcerated, he wouldn't have shot up 17 people.  Where is Spooky and his Two Wrongs proverb?

 

what would he have been incarcerated for, exactly?

[cyclone27 710]

^terrorist threats, bringing firearms/knives previously to school for starters.

[smilesammich 10,727]

3 minutes ago, cyclone27 said:

^terrorist threats, bringing firearms/knives previously to school for starters.

i'd love to get the full story on that, i seriously doubt it's policy in broward county to not discipline a student bringing guns/knives to school.

[cyclone27 710]

Like I said local police and fbi failed to prevent this from happening. They had ample warning to stop this from happening, but for whatever reason they didn’t take it seriously.

[smilesammich 10,727]

12 minutes ago, cyclone27 said:

Like I said local police and fbi failed to prevent this from happening. They had ample warning to stop this from happening, but for whatever reason they didn’t take it seriously.

he should never have had legal access to guns. that's the failure.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

45 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Yes, sweeping issues under the rug is a great thing to do.  Sounds like this guy in Florida turned into a hardened criminal with this program, oh that's right, it was the guns fault.

Same thing with Trayvon M.