Florida School Shooting

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Do they have a civics education, or are they expecting the president to simply write an EO to confiscate all guns?  It seems like the last eight years taught us that the president only needed a pen to make new laws.

i guess you haven't listened to anything they've said thus far. i suppose that's part of the problem..writing people off without taking the time to listen to what they're saying. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

22 minutes ago, -Trinity- said:

But isn't it our duty as a society to analyze where it did go wrong? After several shootings we can't call it an individual incident anymore. We have to come to the conclusion that something is wrong within our society.

 

I think this tragedy proofs again that even with the many, many ,many red flags people are more occupied with their own concerns, instead of paying attention and realizing that this kid needs to be stopped. But the fact that no one ( besides a couple people) did alert the authorities should worry people.

 

And among those who didn't do anything are adults too, so it's not just "clueless videogames playing" teenagers who simply ignored the warnings.

 

 

Absolutely.  And in the case of this youth, the signs were there, and ignored.  Shame on the family for not taking more of an active role, shame on law enforcement for not doing a better job of investigating.    Or... is it shame on us, because we get upset when the police gets too deep in our “personal business”?  Cops have to walk a VERY thin line nowadays between doing their job the best they can and upsetting society.

 

Minding our own business... sometimes it is NOT the best policy, as in this case.

[Dashinka 24,513]

28 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

i guess you haven't listened to anything they've said thus far. i suppose that's part of the problem..writing people off without taking the time to listen to what they're saying. 

Not much listening going on from the MDL either, so what is your point?

4 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Absolutely.  And in the case of this youth, the signs were there, and ignored.  Shame on the family for not taking more of an active role, shame on law enforcement for not doing a better job of investigating.    Or... is it shame on us, because we get upset when the police gets too deep in our “personal business”?  Cops have to walk a VERY thin line nowadays between doing their job the best they can and upsetting society.

 

Minding our own business... sometimes it is NOT the best policy, as in this case.

Do we need to allow the LEOs to do a little profiling?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

5 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Not much listening going on from the MDL either, so what is your point?

Do we need to allow the LEOs to do a little profiling?

1. You cannot expect that to ever happen.

2. We might, at that.  

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Not much listening going on from the MDL either, so what is your point?

 

you were the one asking questions about what these kids' intentions are. they've been speaking pretty publicly about it, maybe listen if you really want to know.

[Boiler 45,527]

This kids intentions could not have been more clearly known.

 

He spoke very publicly about it.

 

8 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

you were the one asking questions about what these kids' intentions are. they've been speaking pretty publicly about it, maybe listen if you really want to know.

 

[yuna628 9,676]

I went to see Black Panther over the weekend (fantastic film actually). Theater was packed, young and old. All the little ones were really well behaved (well except for the two teens next to me that were on their phones the entire 2+ hrs). But it was after the film I got to witness bad 'parenting'. In the restroom, this woman drags in her toddler son. She's screaming at him, and he's wailing and screaming too. You see the 'mom' had refused to take her child to the bathroom during the entire film. And he really had to go. Instead of getting off her selfish butt, she let her son poo his pull up diapers/clothing. He was too young to be going into a bathroom himself, and he wasn't tall enough or even big enough to be using a toilet by himself without falling in. She continues to scream and swear at him, as the poor little guy is sobbing his eyes out. But even better, she's brought no change of clothing, no diapers, not even anything to clean her son with. I can hear her in the stall possibly shaking him quite hard and telling him this is all his fault and that he is going to have to sit like that for the rest of the entire day because she still has things to do. The stench is permeating the entire room. She tells him if he doesn't shut up, she's going to leave him on the floor and walk out!

 

I am stunned. Fuming even. I want to bust that stall door down and tell that woman she doesn't belong having kids. Other women in the room gather and look nervously at the stall, we're all unsure what to do. One offers some wet-wipes but is met with more shouting. I leave the room, so angry but ultimately pretty helpless. What can any of us do? I see really terrible parenting in public all the time, and I wonder what those kids will turn into. Online and running forums, I started seeing what it was turning into - really emotionally disturbed, unloved, unwanted teens needing an outlet to vent their rage. Some yes, do put that anger into video games. If they are especially troubled they have no way of deciding reality from unreality - and the parents are so hands off, they fuel it. But there are millions of persons out there that play video games and have the good sense to understand what they are and do no harm to anyone - myself included.

 

The persons committing crimes like this are in general all angry white boys and men. The environments they have been raised in are similar. The profile is all the same. But profiling wasn't needed by the police in this case, it just required someone with authority to act, to actually act - how many times did they and social services get involved and be so willfully blind? The kids who had to put up with him every day at school, seemed to do the right thing. They warned everyone. They knew what he would do someday. The adults failed them. Eventually kids are going to get tired of that.

[Dashinka 24,513]

44 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

you were the one asking questions about what these kids' intentions are. they've been speaking pretty publicly about it, maybe listen if you really want to know.

Like you have expressed many times relative to other questions and links that you deem wrong on the face of it.  I have listened to what these students are saying and like the MDL they are only addressing the "access to guns", but doing nothing to address the lack of respect for human life.

[smilesammich 10,727]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Like you have expressed many times relative to other questions and links that you deem wrong on the face of it.  I have listened to what these students are saying and like the MDL they are only addressing the "access to guns", but doing nothing to address the lack of respect for human life.

addressing the need for increased gun control also addresses the lack of respect for human life displayed by the 'thoughts and prayers' crowd.

[Dashinka 24,513]

36 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I went to see Black Panther over the weekend (fantastic film actually). Theater was packed, young and old. All the little ones were really well behaved (well except for the two teens next to me that were on their phones the entire 2+ hrs). But it was after the film I got to witness bad 'parenting'. In the restroom, this woman drags in her toddler son. She's screaming at him, and he's wailing and screaming too. You see the 'mom' had refused to take her child to the bathroom during the entire film. And he really had to go. Instead of getting off her selfish butt, she let her son poo his pull up diapers/clothing. He was too young to be going into a bathroom himself, and he wasn't tall enough or even big enough to be using a toilet by himself without falling in. She continues to scream and swear at him, as the poor little guy is sobbing his eyes out. But even better, she's brought no change of clothing, no diapers, not even anything to clean her son with. I can hear her in the stall possibly shaking him quite hard and telling him this is all his fault and that he is going to have to sit like that for the rest of the entire day because she still has things to do. The stench is permeating the entire room. She tells him if he doesn't shut up, she's going to leave him on the floor and walk out!

 

I am stunned. Fuming even. I want to bust that stall door down and tell that woman she doesn't belong having kids. Other women in the room gather and look nervously at the stall, we're all unsure what to do. One offers some wet-wipes but is met with more shouting. I leave the room, so angry but ultimately pretty helpless. What can any of us do? I see really terrible parenting in public all the time, and I wonder what those kids will turn into. Online and running forums, I started seeing what it was turning into - really emotionally disturbed, unloved, unwanted teens needing an outlet to vent their rage. Some yes, do put that anger into video games. If they are especially troubled they have no way of deciding reality from unreality - and the parents are so hands off, they fuel it. But there are millions of persons out there that play video games and have the good sense to understand what they are and do no harm to anyone - myself included.

 

The persons committing crimes like this are in general all angry white boys and men. The environments they have been raised in are similar. The profile is all the same. But profiling wasn't needed by the police in this case, it just required someone with authority to act, to actually act - how many times did they and social services get involved and be so willfully blind? The kids who had to put up with him every day at school, seemed to do the right thing. They warned everyone. They knew what he would do someday. The adults failed them. Eventually kids are going to get tired of that.

Sounds like a real winner as a parent.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Wasn't it a high school student that did the shooting here?  Seems his reasoning skills were a bit lacking considering he had no value for human life.

 

  So you are saying because one person can't reason, no one can? Typical MDR stereotyping.

 

  I was living on my own at 17, working 8 hour shifts and finishing high school. I rented a room from an older couple who helped me a lot to make sure I kept on the right track. The gentleman who rented me the room had dropped out of high school himself to fight in WWII. Many young people of his generation made the ultimate sacrifice for their country. Your comments that young people can't make responsible decisions and think for themselves at that age is not just off the mark, it's offensive to the many young people who do and who have. 

[Boiler 45,527]

35 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Sounds like a real winner as a parent.

I am sure we all have similar such stories.

[Sonea 138]

I do think gun owners are at a cross roads now. Right now everyone is calling for banning gun type A or type B. It would be better to do more to ban the person type and not the gun. If we continue to follow the not 1 inch mentality we will eventually lose.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Sonea

[-Trinity- 513]

1 hour ago, IDWAF said:

Absolutely.  And in the case of this youth, the signs were there, and ignored.  Shame on the family for not taking more of an active role, shame on law enforcement for not doing a better job of investigating.    Or... is it shame on us, because we get upset when the police gets too deep in our “personal business”?  Cops have to walk a VERY thin line nowadays between doing their job the best they can and upsetting society.

 

Minding our own business... sometimes it is NOT the best policy, as in this case.

I'm not sure whether the police didn't want to dig deeper because they were afraid to upset someone.

 

It night be also a case of them thinking: "boys will be boys, it's just a teenager who wants to act though."

 

Bottom line is: 17 lives are lost because multiple individuals , be it family or friends or law enforcement employees, ignored some important signs here.

[yuna628 9,676]

Just now, Sonea said:

I do think gun owners are at a cross roads now. Right now everyone is calling for banning gun type A or type B. It would be better to do more to ban the person type and not the gun.

So young white men and boys? I just can't see that going anywhere..

 

Again I'd be all for preventing children and teenagers from being able to purchase a gun. However this has not been the case for every school shooter. Some got them because their parents had them in the home, or the parents bought them for the kid. Adam Lanza's mother was pretty much just as responsible and negligent for all those homicides (including her own) as her son was imo.