Florida School Shooting

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

7 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

You can't reason with him in regards to that I have told him numerous times before that the gun show loophole is fake and doesn't exist. But he never ever believes me. 

Not everyone who cries "we need more gun control" knows very much about actually buying, owning, nor shooting guns.  I didn't ask if he had ever bought a gun to give him a hard time; rather, it sets a baseline for the convo.  People who have never bought a gun have no idea what it takes (other than reading in the media, and we KNOW how full of bunk that can be).

 

As a responsible gun owner, I will always offer my time and effort to educate anyone on the subject.  I know your history with Jim, but I don't have it yet.  At least he ponied up and directly answered my questions, which is much more than certain other posters are capable of.

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by IDWAF

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 minute ago, IDWAF said:

Not everyone who cries "we need more gun control" knows very much about actually buying, owning, nor shooting guns.  I didn't ask if he had ever bought a gun to give him a hard time; rather, it sets a baseline for the convo.  People who have never bought a gun have no idea what it takes (other than reading in the media, and we KNOW how full of bunk that can be).

 

As a responsible gun owner, I will always offer my time and effort to educate anyone on the subject.  I know your history with Jim, but I don't have it yet.  At least he ponied up and directly answered my questions, which is much more than certain other posters are capable of.

I have offered my time on here maybe 6 months ago after the Vegas shooting to help educate him and all it got me was suspended for 2 days. Yuna and Jacque was the only ones that actually learned anything about what I taught them. I always try to educate someone as well on the usage firearms and I have no problem doing it at all. 

 

I can't wait until it warms up a bit here and I will take my kids to the backyard to shoot. That goes for my 11, 9, and 4 year old. I do this because of formula believe that gun safety starts when your young and n you build upon that base.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

8 minutes ago, Sonea said:

Its not fake. It does exist, its just under rare circumstances and there is no evidence that it increases crime or death rates.

How is it not #fakenews?  What are these "rare circumstances" to which he refer?

[Sonea 138]

1 minute ago, IDWAF said:

How is it not #fakenews?  What are these "rare circumstances" to which he refer?

The gunshow loophole is somewhat mis-named. It should be called the private person loophole. In most states (not all) private sales do not require an FFL between two people of the same state. However, a recent government study has shown that even private individuals do a good job of policing their sales (see the Washington Post article I posted a page or so back).

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

27 minutes ago, Sonea said:

Its not fake. It does exist, its just under rare circumstances and there is no evidence that it increases crime or death rates.

Right between 2 private individuals yes that does happen and I can not lie. But what Jim has said repeatedly on here is that you can go to a gun show and pick up a gun from a reputable dealer with no checks at all.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

I would have no problem with needing a back ground check for private sales.

[Boiler 45,525]

2 hours ago, JimandChristy said:

1. Universal Background Checks.

2. 30 day waiting period in acquiring firearm.

3. Mandatory training in how to safely use and store the weapon. Basically you got to take some sort of firearms course to prove you can responsible.

4. Any history or record of mental illness and domestic violence means restriction.

5. If you carry in public and it must be concealed and you have a licence to do so.

6. Semi-automatic weapons should be off limits. You don't need one to defend your family or hunting.

7. Buying ammunition in bulk amounts should be recorded and monitored.

 

There are a few.

 

I am in Colorado so from a CO perspective:

 

1. We have it

2. No but I think California has it and irrelevant.

3. Concealed Carry and Hunters Ed, so I have them, not sure how that stops me? Better shot, less injured and more dead?

4 We have it

5 We have it, amusingly in Denver where it is more an issue.

6. You have no idea what the difference is. And yes you do.

7. Pointless, how many did this guy use, not that many.

 

Next

 

This is not a semi auto

 

 

[Boiler 45,525]

9 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I would have no problem with needing a back ground check for private sales.

Move to Colorado, we have it and I am sure other States do as well.

[yuna628 9,676]

Update to the story:

 

The leader of the neo-Nazi group is attempting to walk back claims that the shooter was a member to some publications, while saying to others that he was. The police have not yet established that the shooter was a member, even though there were other students that seemed to be aware he was, and they continue to investigate. TBH I'd say his internet history trail says he was or wanted to be a part.. but we'll see. Another publication with some sources to the investigation believes that many of the students he targeted were Jewish or of ethnicities that didn't fit with his viewpoints. So we don't truly know if he was a part of this group - the leader claims he was and was pretty specific about some things. He could be lying but he also could be lying to try and cover it up now that law enforcement is poking around.

 

Buzzfeed's reporting this evening states that the FBI claims they just couldn't pin down the shooter as the same person who made threatening youtube posts... even though the name was pretty obvious. Buzzfeed feels that the FBI really didn't even bother to take the youtube claim seriously and didn't do any investigative work with youtube to really determine any data about the poster to begin with. https://www.buzzfeed.com/kevincollier/had-the-fbi-subpoenaed-youtube-it-would-have-learned-months 

 

Still haven't heard a thing from any of his family members, but I guess we don't know about the family dynamic yet.

 

--

 

To gun owners in this thread: If you are comfortable with background checks, waiting periods, concealed carry, and thorough training programs. Would a mental health check be a problem? We would potentially eliminate those who were previously under the radar that way. Would you also be comfortable on adjusting the age with which a person can go into a gun store and purchase a firearm? It's my view that a teenager, who cannot even drink alcohol or smoke or drive (in some states with just a provisional license) should not be walking into a store and buying a gun without parental permission and extensive training. We make kids go through a process to get their driving license, I think some ground rules should apply. I know it's a state's rights thing, but I just find it incredibly weird an 18 yr old kid can go buy a long gun (they don't require any sort of permit either) and have no training, but they can't buy handguns (which he also had.. so how'd he get those?). Florida is going to do it's own thing I know... but if you're going to own a gun, I'd like to see responsible gun ownership. You're not going to get that with teenagers with no supervision.

 

As I've said before many of my neighbors own guns, but they certainly do not behave with them in a safe manner either... and cops in this town look the other way.

[Boiler 45,525]

33 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

 

To gun owners in this thread: If you are comfortable with background checks, waiting periods, concealed carry, and thorough training programs. Would a mental health check be a problem? We would potentially eliminate those who were previously under the radar that way. Would you also be comfortable on adjusting the age with which a person can go into a gun store and purchase a firearm? It's my view that a teenager, who cannot even drink alcohol or smoke or drive (in some states with just a provisional license) should not be walking into a store and buying a gun without parental permission and extensive training. We make kids go through a process to get their driving license, I think some ground rules should apply. I know it's a state's rights thing, but I just find it incredibly weird an 18 yr old kid can go buy a long gun (they don't require any sort of permit either) and have no training, but they can't buy handguns (which he also had.. so how'd he get those?). Florida is going to do it's own thing I know... but if you're going to own a gun, I'd like to see responsible gun ownership. You're not going to get that with teenagers with no supervision.

 

As I've said before many of my neighbors own guns, but they certainly do not behave with them in a safe manner either... and cops in this town look the other way.

Anyone under the age of 18 must be accompanied by an adult. Individuals 18 or older can purchase a long gun (shotgun or rifle), but must be 21 years of age to purchase a handgun.

 

Colorado, seems fair. I am more concerned about the really young age you can drive. When I learnt to drive you had to be 17 and the test was not the walk in the park it is in the US, most people I knew did not pass first time.

 

You can buy a car at 16 I believe.

 

Mental Health is already a block to buying. Not sure if they can take what you have, I think so.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Boiler

[Sonea 138]

36 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

 

To gun owners in this thread: If you are comfortable with background checks, waiting periods, concealed carry, and thorough training programs. Would a mental health check be a problem? We would potentially eliminate those who were previously under the radar that way. Would you also be comfortable on adjusting the age with which a person can go into a gun store and purchase a firearm? It's my view that a teenager, who cannot even drink alcohol or smoke or drive (in some states with just a provisional license) should not be walking into a store and buying a gun without parental permission and extensive training. We make kids go through a process to get their driving license, I think some ground rules should apply. I know it's a state's rights thing, but I just find it incredibly weird an 18 yr old kid can go buy a long gun (they don't require any sort of permit either) and have no training, but they can't buy handguns (which he also had.. so how'd he get those?). Florida is going to do it's own thing I know... but if you're going to own a gun, I'd like to see responsible gun ownership. You're not going to get that with teenagers with no supervision.

 

As I've said before many of my neighbors own guns, but they certainly do not behave with them in a safe manner either... and cops in this town look the other way.

 

I think the US drinking age should be 16, the driving age 18 and the current age for firearms is correct (18 long gun and 21 handgun for most states). I mentioned this before but a psychological exam for those under 25 like they have in Germany makes sense.

 

By the way, the reason there is a different age for long guns and hand guns is due to two factors. Many people in rural areas hunt at a young age so there is pressure to have a lower age requirement. They also don't factor in to crime statistically.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

45 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Move to Colorado, we have it and I am sure other States do as well.

Most states have it, but it's near impossible to enforce.  I bought a handgun in two different states from people I knew.  One didn't even have a bill of sale, the other did (smart on the part of the seller).  No BG checks were done.

[Boiler 45,525]

2 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Most states have it, but it's near impossible to enforce.  I bought a handgun in two different states from people I knew.  One didn't even have a bill of sale, the other did (smart on the part of the seller).  No BG checks were done.

I remember talking to a guy years ago who only bought shall we say informally as he did not want to have anything new he bought on a database, I thought at the time it was a bit Black Helicopter but now not so sure.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

48 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

 

To gun owners in this thread: If you are comfortable with background checks, waiting periods, concealed carry, and thorough training programs. Would a mental health check be a problem? We would potentially eliminate those who were previously under the radar that way. Would you also be comfortable on adjusting the age with which a person can go into a gun store and purchase a firearm? It's my view that a teenager, who cannot even drink alcohol or smoke or drive (in some states with just a provisional license) should not be walking into a store and buying a gun without parental permission and extensive training. We make kids go through a process to get their driving license, I think some ground rules should apply. I know it's a state's rights thing, but I just find it incredibly weird an 18 yr old kid can go buy a long gun (they don't require any sort of permit either) and have no training, but they can't buy handguns (which he also had.. so how'd he get those?). Florida is going to do it's own thing I know... but if you're going to own a gun, I'd like to see responsible gun ownership. You're not going to get that with teenagers with no supervision.

 

As I've said before many of my neighbors own guns, but they certainly do not behave with them in a safe manner either... and cops in this town look the other way.

As to the mental health check question... How? I mean, people who have treatment for mental health SHOULD already pop up, but as we saw with the former Air Force guy who went rogue, the system failed miserably.

 

If you are suggesting a mental health checkup at the time of purchase, I'd vote no for now, because there isn't a standard,  and it would very limited in scope.  Probably a waste of time and money, I'd guess.