I got very confused! Couldn't understand the 3 years.

[methold 10]

Hi there,

I'm married to a U.S. Citizen and obtained my Green Card through marriage. Here is a brief history of my legal process.

- I Got Married in the U.S. on Feb 2015.  
- I Received my conditional Green Card (2 years) with the dates Nov 23, 2015, to Nov 23, 2017. 
- I removed the conditions and applied for the permanent Green Card (10 years) Sep 1, 2017. 
- I received my extension letter with an expiration date of Nov 23, 2018

So far so good. 
My understanding is, If you are married you have to reside continuously 3 years in the U.S. Meaning by the time I will receive my permanent Green Card I will be eligible to apply for N-400 but I will be traveling overseas for 1 year on March 9th.

My question is how can I avoid the clock to reset for the 3 years? Because with my simple math I come to a conclusion that If I leave March and I would have completed the 3 years in November I just need to reside for another 8 months to complete my 3 years?

But then I started realizing it’s not that simple. Absences of more than six months but less than one year may disrupt an applicant’s continuous residence unless the applicant can prove otherwise. This sentence confuses me. I will be abroad for exactly 1 year. But I can manage to stay only 11 months and 20 days to be on the safe side. 
Or is there a way to avoid any risks if I do touch-downs to the U.S. every 5 months for a weekend or so?  I applied for N-470 but I don’t think my application is going to be approved. 

My goal is to avoid resetting the 3-year clock. I appreciate all your help.

[Going through 5,671]

There are two parts---physical presence and continuous presence---and you must meet the requirements for both to be approved for the N400.

 

Physical presence is the actual time you are physically in the US---meaning not travelling to other countries.

Continuous presence is the actual time your main domicile (ie. living and working) is in the US.

 

Travelling outside of the US for a year without a re entry permit--- or even for 6 months in some cases--- can break both the physical and continuous requirements. 

 

"Touchdowns in the US every 5 months for a weekend" is not going to help you with meeting the physical presence requirements (and as mentioned can also disrupt the continuous presence), as it can easily be proven by passport stamps that you were mainly outside of the US during that year at your N400 interview.  If you do these proposed "touchdowns" often enough, you can also run the risk of being denied entry into the US/having something marked in your passport as POE may determine you are not properly fulfilling the requirements of a green card holder.  

 

It would be best to not leave the US without an approved N-470.  An approved N-470 makes sure that your physical presence outside of the US would not be counted against you, and that you also retained continuous presence for that year when applying for the N400. 

 

You are playing with fire, in my opinion, if you leave without it.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Going through

[methold 10]

Yep, I think I'm playing with fire but I need this employment opportunity abroad. 

 

But let's say I stayed for 1 year and I interrupted both the physical absence and continuous absence and the clock needs to be reset. That time is 2 years and 1 day. Is that correct?

[Going through 5,671]

16 minutes ago, methold said:

Yep, I think I'm playing with fire but I need this employment opportunity abroad. 

Working in another country will definitely have the IO properly assume you set up residence in another country (breaking the continuous residence requirement) and scrutinize your application even more during the interview stage, without the approved N-470 beforehand.

 

16 minutes ago, methold said:

But let's say I stayed for 1 year and I interrupted both the physical absence and continuous absence and the clock needs to be reset. That time is 2 years and 1 day. Is that correct?

You're forgetting the part where you're still a GC holder and then also run the risk of POE determining abandonment your LPR status altogether by living and working outside of the US for an entire year, and then may have to start from square one entirely.  

 

Why do you believe your N-470 won't be approved/don't want to wait for one?

Edited February 9, 2018 by Going through

[methold 10]

10 minutes ago, Going through said:

Working in another country will definitely have the IO properly assume you set up residence in another country (breaking the continuous residence requirement) and scrutinize your application even more during the interview stage, without the approved N-470 beforehand.

 

You're forgetting the part where you're still a GC holder and then also run the risk of abandoning your LPR status altogether by living and working outside of the US for an entire year, and then have to start from square one entirely.  

 

Why do you believe your N-470 won't be approved/don't want to wait for one?

 

I just called USCIS to speak to a representative about my N-470 application. They will call me back in an hour. 

I will be working for Apple Inc. in Ireland and I'm not sure if Apple Inc. as a company qualifies for N-470. It's not that I'm sure but just a feeling that I have. I sent my N-470 application on Nov 24, 2017, and received my notice on Dec 14, 2017.  

 

Starting from 0 would be devastating since this whole Green Card process was a nightmare. If it's this bad I may only work abroad for 5 months 25 days and come back.

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by methold

[Going through 5,671]

It's normally based on the type of work you will be doing abroad, not necessarily the company name itself...depends on what specifically you would be doing for them though:

 

“Certain employment purposes” includes working for:

• The U.S. government
• An entity that is currently recognized by USCIS as an American institution of research
• An American firm or corporation (or a subsidiary of that firm or corporation) where you engage in developing the foreign trade and commerce of the United States
• An American firm or corporation engaged in the development of foreign trade and commerce of the United States, where you protect the property rights outside the United States of that American firm or corporation
• A public international organization of which the United States is a member by treaty or statute
• A denomination or mission that has a bona fide organization in the United States in which you perform ministerial or priestly functions or your sole role is a clergyman or clergywoman, missionary, brother, nun, or sister

Edited February 9, 2018 by Going through

[methold 10]

14 minutes ago, Going through said:

It's normally based on the type of work you will be doing abroad, not necessarily the company name itself...depends on what specifically you would be doing for them though:

 

“Certain employment purposes” includes working for:

• The U.S. government
• An entity that is currently recognized by USCIS as an American institution of research
• An American firm or corporation (or a subsidiary of that firm or corporation) where you engage in developing the foreign trade and commerce of the United States
• An American firm or corporation engaged in the development of foreign trade and commerce of the United States, where you protect the property rights outside the United States of that American firm or corporation
• A public international organization of which the United States is a member by treaty or statute
• A denomination or mission that has a bona fide organization in the United States in which you perform ministerial or priestly functions or your sole role is a clergyman or clergywoman, missionary, brother, nun, or sister

 

Exactly! That's why I'm confused with the approval of my N-470 I'm not quite sure if my job descriptions fall into one of those.

[Hypnos 6,577]

I would be surprised if working for Apple qualified. 

[methold 10]

7 hours ago, Hypnos said:

I would be surprised if working for Apple qualified. 

This is not helping me with my panick attack

 

[Going through 5,671]

27 minutes ago, methold said:

This is not helping me with my panick attack

 

Can you elaborate more on the type of work you would be doing for Apple abroad?  That would help in further determining whether you'd fit the criteria.

[cyclone27 710]

There will be other job opportunities get your citizenship first worry about overseas employment opportunities later.

[nightingalejules 678]

Hi there,

I'm married to a U.S. Citizen and obtained my Green Card through marriage. Here is a brief history of my legal process.

- I Got Married in the U.S. on Feb 2015.  
- I Received my conditional Green Card (2 years) with the dates Nov 23, 2015, to Nov 23, 2017. 
- I removed the conditions and applied for the permanent Green Card (10 years) Sep 1, 2017. 
- I received my extension letter with an expiration date of Nov 23, 2018

So far so good. 

 

Yes, so you're still waiting for your 10 year green card as of this moment, right? There's a problem right here, which is:

• You may still be called for an interview for your ROC (and you almost certainly won't have your 10 year green card before you leave)
  • Is there someone staying in the US who can check your mail for you and (best case) send you your green card or (worse case) inform you of an RFE and help you submit documents or (other worse case) inform you that you have to get your butt on a plane and do an interview with your spouse.

My understanding is, If you are married you have to reside continuously 3 years in the U.S. Meaning by the time I will receive my permanent Green Card I will be eligible to apply for N-400

 

The way things are now, it's almost 100% likely that you will be eligible to apply for naturalization before you get your 10 year card. ROC is ridiculously delayed, especially at CSC.  You would be eligible to apply for citizenship 90 days before Nov 23, 2018

 

but I will be traveling overseas for 1 year on March 9th.

My question is how can I avoid the clock to reset for the 3 years? Because with my simple math I come to a conclusion that If I leave March and I would have completed the 3 years in November I just need to reside for another 8 months to complete my 3 years?

But then I started realizing it’s not that simple. Absences of more than six months but less than one year may disrupt an applicant’s continuous residence unless the applicant can prove otherwise. This sentence confuses me. I will be abroad for exactly 1 year. But I can manage to stay only 11 months and 20 days to be on the safe side. 

I understand that you'd like to avoid resetting the clock for your 3 years. Honestly, I don't think it's possible under the circumstances, and frankly, I think that's the least of your worries. Once you have your 10 yr green card, there's no particular rush to get your citizenship... and the process to get another 10 year green card after you've gotten the first one is nothing like the bureaucratic nightmare we've been through so far. It's pretty much like getting a new driver's license, only you get to do it online or by mail instead of going to the DMV!

 

Here are the things you need to figure out:

1. If you go, who will send you the next part of your ROC process?
   1. Be prepared for an RFE, with every bit of marriage evidence you have printed and packaged and ready to go, so your assistant doesn't need to do anything but put the RFE on top and ship it back to USCIS.
   2. Be prepared for both you and your spouse to have to drop everything and attend an interview at your "local office". You'd get a couple weeks notice.
   3. Make sure that, if you don't have your new card by late October, you fly back to the US to make an Infopass to get an I-551 (green card) stamp in your passport. That way, you will still be able to enter the US to attend an interview.
2. Assuming that you don't get approved for N-470, you still need to file an I-131 for a re-entry permit. That way, even if you lose your "place in line" for citizenship, your Permanent Residency won't be in jeopardy.
3. Don't assume that you don't need a re-entry permit if you plan to "visit" the US while you're working abroad. People do get away with it, but I really wouldn't take the chance if I were you.

So what it comes down to is this. You will likely not be able to preserve your continuous residency. Sorry. But you're not going to be a continuous resident, so it kind of makes sense! What you do have to do is preserve your Permanent Resident status, and you don't have to be approved for an N-470 for that, just an I-131.

 

 

[methold 10]

Thank you all for contributing.

 

1. If you go, who will send you the next part of your ROC process?
   1. Be prepared for an RFE, with every bit of marriage evidence you have printed and packaged and ready to go, so your assistant doesn't need to do anything but put the RFE on top and ship it back to USCIS.
   2. Be prepared for both you and your spouse to have to drop everything and attend an interview at your "local office". You'd get a couple weeks notice.
   3. Make sure that, if you don't have your new card by late October, you fly back to the US to make an Infopass to get an I-551 (green card) stamp in your passport. That way, you will still be able to enter the US to attend an interview.
2. Assuming that you don't get approved for N-470, you still need to file an I-131 for a re-entry permit. That way, even if you lose your "place in line" for citizenship, your Permanent Residency won't be in jeopardy.
3. Don't assume that you don't need a re-entry permit if you plan to "visit" the US while you're working abroad. People do get away with it, but I really wouldn't take the chance if I were you.

 

Today as of February 13th, 2018 I called USCIS Tier 2 to get some more information about the Re-entry permit I received and the N470 application.

 

1) My U.S. spouse will remain in the U.S. since he is working and I will be gone for less than a year. (My planned employment in Ireland will be around 9-12 months) He will check the mail and stay on top of USCIS communications. ROC processing times are crazy but I'm expecting my permanent Green Card around September-October. In case of an emergency like an interview, I can take the next flight. I will keep an eye for the I-551 stamp.

 

2) I already got approved for I-131 travel document. It's a re-entry permit looks like a small green passport book. It's valid till my extension letter expires, which is November 23rd, 2018. (USCIS Tier 2 told me that re-entry permits are usually valid for 2 years. Mine is only 9 months since I don't have yet the 10 year Green Card. He also told me that N470 applications are so few that they don't enter them anymore to the system. They now put it on the main file for naturalization. I have received a receipt for N470 and he told me that it is in there and good to go but he couldn't assure me a copy since they don't send approval notices anymore. He recommended requesting a "FOIA" Freedom of Information to get more information)

 

3) I will be back before the re-entry permit expires which is November 23rd, 2018 and when I'm back I will be eligible to apply for N400 and N470 should be already in my file.

 

I hope the information he gave me is correct. I think I'm getting paranoid with this N470. They have no idea who is handling these applications.

Edited February 13, 2018 by methold

[KVE 29]

13 hours ago, methold said:

Thank you all for contributing.

 

1. If you go, who will send you the next part of your ROC process?
   1. Be prepared for an RFE, with every bit of marriage evidence you have printed and packaged and ready to go, so your assistant doesn't need to do anything but put the RFE on top and ship it back to USCIS.
   2. Be prepared for both you and your spouse to have to drop everything and attend an interview at your "local office". You'd get a couple weeks notice.
   3. Make sure that, if you don't have your new card by late October, you fly back to the US to make an Infopass to get an I-551 (green card) stamp in your passport. That way, you will still be able to enter the US to attend an interview.
2. Assuming that you don't get approved for N-470, you still need to file an I-131 for a re-entry permit. That way, even if you lose your "place in line" for citizenship, your Permanent Residency won't be in jeopardy.
3. Don't assume that you don't need a re-entry permit if you plan to "visit" the US while you're working abroad. People do get away with it, but I really wouldn't take the chance if I were you.

 

Today as of February 13th, 2018 I called USCIS Tier 2 to get some more information about the Re-entry permit I received and the N470 application.

 

1) My U.S. spouse will remain in the U.S. since he is working and I will be gone for less than a year. (My planned employment in Ireland will be around 9-12 months) He will check the mail and stay on top of USCIS communications. ROC processing times are crazy but I'm expecting my permanent Green Card around September-October. In case of an emergency like an interview, I can take the next flight. I will keep an eye for the I-551 stamp.

 

2) I already got approved for I-131 travel document. It's a re-entry permit looks like a small green passport book. It's valid till my extension letter expires, which is November 23rd, 2018. (USCIS Tier 2 told me that re-entry permits are usually valid for 2 years. Mine is only 9 months since I don't have yet the 10 year Green Card. He also told me that N470 applications are so few that they don't enter them anymore to the system. They now put it on the main file for naturalization. I have received a receipt for N470 and he told me that it is in there and good to go but he couldn't assure me a copy since they don't send approval notices anymore. He recommended requesting a "FOIA" Freedom of Information to get more information)

 

3) I will be back before the re-entry permit expires which is November 23rd, 2018 and when I'm back I will be eligible to apply for N400 and N470 should be already in my file.

 

I hope the information he gave me is correct. I think I'm getting paranoid with this N470. They have no idea who is handling these applications.

This is in response to your response to 3.

 

Sounds like you won't know whether your N470 was approved or not. If you do come back and file, you probably can't leave the country again. I would assume N470 would be for that specific trip rather. I'm not an immigration lawyer but it sounds like you may need one to figure what to do for your case.

[methold 10]

1 hour ago, KVE said:

This is in response to your response to 3.

 

Sounds like you won't know whether your N470 was approved or not. If you do come back and file, you probably can't leave the country again. I would assume N470 would be for that specific trip rather. I'm not an immigration lawyer but it sounds like you may need one to figure what to do for your case.

Yes, you are right, I don't think I will be able to figure out whether I was approved or not. If I can live and work until my re-entry permit is valid, which is November 23rd, 2018 I will be fine. After coming back I can apply for N400 and hope for the best that they have on my permanent file the N470. 

 

It's just frustrating that Green Card holders need to go through all this and can't take advantage of career opportunities. 

 

I thank you all again for helping me. I will keep you posted.