Supreme Court Pass Means Pennsylvania Must Redraw Congressional Maps In 10 Days

[bcking 3,157]

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/05/583373004/supreme-court-pass-means-pennsylvania-must-redraw-congressional-maps-in-10-days?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social

 

In the long run this is good for everyone.

 

Though it does have an interesting question - the lines shouldn't be drawn for political advatange but how should they be?

 

Geography? Competitiveness?

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

8 hours ago, bcking said:

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/05/583373004/supreme-court-pass-means-pennsylvania-must-redraw-congressional-maps-in-10-days?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social

 

In the long run this is good for everyone.

 

Though it does have an interesting question - the lines shouldn't be drawn for political advatange but how should they be?

 

Geography? Competitiveness?

I wish it was done to a more even scenario but it's not. I would love to see it done to more evenly match the dynamics on the ground but you and I both know that won't happen. It won't happen because both parties have been Gerrymandering for so long it is now common practice.

[TBoneTX 45,288]

Years ago, a Congressional district in the Houston area was redrawn specifically so that a Hispanic Democrat could win the seat.  This is true.

 

Upsetting the best-laid plans of mice and men, the intended victor was charged with various felonies before the election.  This enabled Gene Green (regular white guy, despite his name) to win the seat, and he has held it ever since.  He's retiring from Congress after this term, and a bunch of hopefuls (many Hispanic) are running.

[bcking 3,157]

17 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Years ago, a Congressional district in the Houston area was redrawn specifically so that a Hispanic Democrat could win the seat.  This is true.

 

Upsetting the best-laid plans of mice and men, the intended victor was charged with various felonies before the election.  This enabled Gene Green (regular white guy, despite his name) to win the seat, and he has held it ever since.  He's retiring from Congress after this term, and a bunch of hopefuls (many Hispanic) are running.

Ya I absolutely acknowledge it happens on both sides.

 

That's why I feel like it's something that the public can get behind in a "non-partisan" way. We should expect fair elections, not ones where the outcome is manipulated by deciding who gets to vote.

[Dashinka 24,494]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 10:42 PM, bcking said:

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/05/583373004/supreme-court-pass-means-pennsylvania-must-redraw-congressional-maps-in-10-days?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social

 

In the long run this is good for everyone.

 

Though it does have an interesting question - the lines shouldn't be drawn for political advatange but how should they be?

 

Geography? Competitiveness?

 

 

How do you draw a map based on competitiveness?  Why not just draw vertical and horizontal lines across the state and set up quadrants with one rep for each quadrant? 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Bill & Katya

[Dashinka 24,494]

18 hours ago, bcking said:

Ya I absolutely acknowledge it happens on both sides.

 

That's why I feel like it's something that the public can get behind in a "non-partisan" way. We should expect fair elections, not ones where the outcome is manipulated by deciding who gets to vote.

The story you posted said the first map had bi-partisan support.  What gives?

[bcking 3,157]

4 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

The story you posted said the first map had bi-partisan support.  What gives?

I'm not surprised it did. If you have the people running for election drawing the lines, you'll bound to get bipartisan support from people whom your lines will keep in office.

 

The drawing of the map should be done by a group that is completely separate from those who run for office.

 

7 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

 

 

How do you draw a map based on competitiveness?  Why not just draw vertical and horizontal lines across the state and set up quadrants with one rep for each quadrant? 

Taking competitiveness into account would be to slightly adjust the lines to bring the number of registered Democrats/Republicans closer to even in each district.

 

Honestly I think the better way would be by geography/population. You don't want tiny districts and giant ones (by size), or by population. So do a mix.

 

I believe John Oliver did an episode on this and talked about a group that have redrawn maps based on different parameters that ignore party politics. It was a year or so ago I think.

[Dashinka 24,494]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

I'm not surprised it did. If you have the people running for election drawing the lines, you'll bound to get bipartisan support from people whom your lines will keep in office.

 

The drawing of the map should be done by a group that is completely separate from those who run for office.

 

Taking competitiveness into account would be to slightly adjust the lines to bring the number of registered Democrats/Republicans closer to even in each district.

 

Honestly I think the better way would be by geography/population. You don't want tiny districts and giant ones (by size), or by population. So do a mix.

 

I believe John Oliver did an episode on this and talked about a group that have redrawn maps based on different parameters that ignore party politics. It was a year or so ago I think.

Isn't it pretty much the same group that drew the 2011 map that will be doing this one?  Bi-partisanship at its best.

 

Not really sure how you balance the registered party members from the two majors along with balancing population without a lot of paper thin slices through Philly and Pittsburg.  I think that map might look a lot sillier than the 2011 map.  Just do it be area, all the districts will be essentially the same size and it will look nice on paper.

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

Isn't it pretty much the same group that drew the 2011 map that will be doing this one?  Bi-partisanship at its best.

 

Not really sure how you balance the registered party members from the two majors along with balancing population without a lot of paper thin slices through Philly and Pittsburg.  I think that map might look a lot sillier than the 2011 map.  Just do it be area, all the districts will be essentially the same size and it will look nice on paper.

Well I don't support giving them the job to redraw the maps. I was more happy that the courts ruled against gerrymandering. Ultimately though I think it will have to fall to someone else.

 

I'll have to pull up the video and find the source he used. There were several "options". If I recall the group that put them together were primarily mathematicians and they used modeling to determine options that prioritized different elements. It's all vague in my head right now.

[Dashinka 24,494]

7 minutes ago, bcking said:

Well I don't support giving them the job to redraw the maps. I was more happy that the courts ruled against gerrymandering. Ultimately though I think it will have to fall to someone else.

 

I'll have to pull up the video and find the source he used. There were several "options". If I recall the group that put them together were primarily mathematicians and they used modeling to determine options that prioritized different elements. It's all vague in my head right now.

In 10 days?  The best is to use the KISS methodology.  Anything else will always garner criticism regardless of how many maths persons are involved. 

[bcking 3,157]

7 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

In 10 days?  The best is to use the KISS methodology.  Anything else will always garner criticism regardless of how many maths persons are involved. 

When I said ultimately I didn't mean this specific scenario. I just mean long term I think district lines should be drawn by people who don't actually run for election based on the districts.

 

The fact that we ever thought it was a good idea to do it that way is crazy to me.

 

It's like a college student writing his final exam and then getting excited he got an A.

Edited February 7, 2018 by bcking

[Dashinka 24,494]

33 minutes ago, bcking said:

When I said ultimately I didn't mean this specific scenario. I just mean long term I think district lines should be drawn by people who don't actually run for election based on the districts.

 

The fact that we ever thought it was a good idea to do it that way is crazy to me.

 

It's like a college student writing his final exam and then getting excited he got an A.

I still say keep it simple.  Have a kid with no developed bias get out a ruler and a pencil and divide it into as equal (by area) districts they can.  Simple, no slivers, no gerrymandering, not a lot of government money spent.

[TBoneTX 45,288]

The elephant in the room is the prevalent -- and oft-expressed -- belief that "only a black representative can represent black people," "only a Hispanic representative can represent Hispanic people," etc.  This is why gridlines by ruler would not be accepted and why they might even be challenged in court as racist.

[bcking 3,157]

33 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

The elephant in the room is the prevalent -- and oft-expressed -- belief that "only a black representative can represent black people," "only a Hispanic representative can represent Hispanic people," etc.  This is why gridlines by ruler would not be accepted and why they might even be challenged in court as racist.

While I agree that would make it difficult for many people to "accept" geographic gridlines, I think calling them racist would be to overreach the term.

 

I think the term is used far more loosely these days than it should be. Sitting down with a map of a state in front of you and coming up with the most evenly distributed set of districts based on geography alone would not be racist. You would have no information about race/color/creed of anyone in the state when you were doing it. Everyone is treated equally. You are just drawing lines on a map and people will fall into whatever lines they fall into.

 

http://bdistricting.com/2010/

 

I don't know if this is the one I was thinking about but here is someone who has done it for every state.

[Dashinka 24,494]

16 hours ago, bcking said:

While I agree that would make it difficult for many people to "accept" geographic gridlines, I think calling them racist would be to overreach the term.

 

I think the term is used far more loosely these days than it should be. Sitting down with a map of a state in front of you and coming up with the most evenly distributed set of districts based on geography alone would not be racist. You would have no information about race/color/creed of anyone in the state when you were doing it. Everyone is treated equally. You are just drawing lines on a map and people will fall into whatever lines they fall into.

 

http://bdistricting.com/2010/

 

I don't know if this is the one I was thinking about but here is someone who has done it for every state.

Sure, to most logical people it would not be considered racist, but you know that politics brings in people that completely lack common sense or the ability to think with basic logic.