DACA DELUSION: Kirsten Gillibrand Says ‘Chain Migration’ is a ‘RACIST SLUR’

[dentsflogged 352]

On 2/7/2018 at 3:18 AM, AshMarty said:

So you are suggesting we focus our energy on the poor immigrants rather than focus on improving the lives of the poor USC citizens? I think the country is pretty outweighed with poverty as it is.

 

In order to help the USCs that are already here we need to look at what benefits the country. I have no issues with having parents come over but I think the regulations need to be readdressed in order to set up a family for a successful immigration experience. Asking someone if they make a small percent over the poverty line does not set up an adult immigrant that has no interest in working for success. Poverty is not what people immigrating to the US are hoping to live in. Setting up realistic standards for what would make a successful retirement in the US as an immigration standard would be a much better idea for the individual immigrating and for the country as a whole. Older immigrants aren't refugees (fleeing from their country) they are making a lifestyle choice. 

I agree to a point. 

 

I strongly believe that all immigration (besides spouse) should be 100% merit based in order to ensure success. I'm talking basic education (reading and writing), English language skills (because the chances of someone who does not speak English at all, or doesn't speak it to a reasonable level getting a good job and not being taken advantage of in the workplace are pretty slim), evidence of skills training and/or higher education, demonstrable work history in a field which is required in the US, etc etc etc.   Many western countries (Australia, Italy, Germany just to name ones that I know of personally) require people applying for citizenship and sometimes even LPR to show a basic ability to speak the local language. To me, it's a no-brainer - how can anyone expect to be successful in a country where they don't speak the language and can't communicate easily on a daily basis?

 

At the moment the ability to sponsor family members is very much weighing things unfairly towards "who you know" - if you're a person who doesn't meet any basic criteria except that you have a direct family member in the US who makes enough money to sponsor you, you're gonna have a bad time (As a working-age individual, anyhow - totally different story for minor children and/or aged parents).  But what about the person next door who has vital skills but can't otherwise immigrate (because all the work-sponsored visas are actually quite difficult to get approved) because they aren't related to a USC?   Admittedly a lot of this even going back multiple generations, has a lot to do with luck but personally I'd love to see the removal of the automatic benefit/privilege for those related to (relatively more) wealthy USC's.  

 

The one point I do disagree is about poverty.   I have known several people who have stated explicitly that living in Poverty in a "First World"/Western country is a hell of a lot better than living in poverty in a "Third World" country.

Edited February 8, 2018 by dentsflogged

[mustang85635 182]

9 hours ago, yuna628 said:

This country is not built or based upon which immigrants arriving to it come from countries that one person over another person finds 'vastly superior'. It is built on the ideal that all men are created equal, and that if given the same opportunity they can live out their dreams under the promise of freedom.

 

At one time yes a lot of Norwegians came to this country. And guess what? They were viewed as dirty, strange cultured, non-English speaking 'weirdos'... much the same as some view any other immigrant today. Common propaganda was that they were dirty, of low intelligence, and stank of fish. During the times when Norwegian immigration happened in large volume, their country was considered as pretty terrible. Poverty was rampant. The Homesteading Act in the late 1800s offered a promise of land to these immigrants, if they worked it for five years. I would also point out that integration was a huge issue for Norwegians in America, some 70% of them actually returned back to Norway. They had very low wages compared to other immigrants in the same time frame, and had lower levels of integration (even into the 2nd generation)... and because they were so isolated in their farm communities, they also retained their language longer than any other ethnic group.

 

A good friend of mine is Norwegian. He is a highly educated man and has no desire to come to the US, except to visit a family member who did immigrate here via marriage. He does speak English, though I have to tell you he can write it better than he speaks it (it takes very careful listening to understand him and sometimes he needs help for certain words). He is disgusted by the comments of POTUS and attitude towards immigrants from countries that are seemingly now viewed as a contest of ''who is less superior''.

 

If you look at various statistics regarding Haitian immigrants, you'll find that they have high values toward those being employed compared to others, are more educated, and are also in fields that are solid middle class to higher paying jobs. The vast majority, for instance of those who were TPS here were employed as teachers, doctors, nurses, and other important fields -- their children were in school (and doing very well compared to US students) or pursuing higher education and did speak English or were bi-lingual. There are some very excellent studies by CATO regarding immigration and the falsehoods being spewed about who is more or less superior...  and that's coming from the conservative side of the aisle.

So if lets say for the sake of the argument that most Haitians on TPS are doctors, nurses and teachers which is absolutely false and complete  lie spewed by the left all the time and it does get me mad, its the same done with DACA people like they are all rocket scientists and engineers. They are not , most are not in that position . Show me proof that its the case I couldnt find anything . 

You cant just be a doctor and nurse  in Haiti and then work here . Most people including yourself dont know the process and medical licensing exams that have to be done on top of that your university has to be recongized as of same standard and I am not aware of any in Haiti that will get you qualified to take the USMLE. Then you have to do residency all over again. Because that is never recongized in the USA . 

 

But for the sake of the argument the majority is that . It would be terrible for the country of Haiti to loose all the smart and hardworking people . So thats where Trump is exactly right he said now we will have all the TPS people go back to there country now that its over it was always meant to be TEMPORARY and they have probably new skills and knowledge and can now help make there county great again . Build it up and be community leaders.

 

It would be the compassiont thing to do actually since Haiti’s health care system is not known to be in that great of shape anyway . I am sure they will need all the doctors and nurses they can get 

[mustang85635 182]

1 hour ago, dentsflogged said:

I agree to a point. 

 

I strongly believe that all immigration (besides spouse) should be 100% merit based in order to ensure success. I'm talking basic education (reading and writing), English language skills (because the chances of someone who does not speak English at all, or doesn't speak it to a reasonable level getting a good job and not being taken advantage of in the workplace are pretty slim), evidence of skills training and/or higher education, demonstrable work history in a field which is required in the US, etc etc etc.   Many western countries (Australia, Italy, Germany just to name ones that I know of personally) require people applying for citizenship and sometimes even LPR to show a basic ability to speak the local language. To me, it's a no-brainer - how can anyone expect to be successful in a country where they don't speak the language and can't communicate easily on a daily basis?

 

At the moment the ability to sponsor family members is very much weighing things unfairly towards "who you know" - if you're a person who doesn't meet any basic criteria except that you have a direct family member in the US who makes enough money to sponsor you, you're gonna have a bad time (As a working-age individual, anyhow - totally different story for minor children and/or aged parents).  But what about the person next door who has vital skills but can't otherwise immigrate (because all the work-sponsored visas are actually quite difficult to get approved) because they aren't related to a USC?   Admittedly a lot of this even going back multiple generations, has a lot to do with luck but personally I'd love to see the removal of the automatic benefit/privilege for those related to (relatively more) wealthy USC's.  

 

The one point I do disagree is about poverty.   I have known several people who have stated explicitly that living in Poverty in a "First World"/Western country is a hell of a lot better than living in poverty in a "Third World" country.

Exactly . I agree 100 percent . 

Especially the person that said Trump is going to bring this country to third world status quickly, Im sorry but how disillusioned do you have to believe this in all honesty . Just makes me know on what kind of level of knowledge about the world you are on and the amout you have actually travelled to a third world country . Most likely ZERO visited. 

[AshMarty 360]

8 hours ago, dentsflogged said:

I agree to a point. 

 

I strongly believe that all immigration (besides spouse) should be 100% merit based in order to ensure success. I'm talking basic education (reading and writing), English language skills (because the chances of someone who does not speak English at all, or doesn't speak it to a reasonable level getting a good job and not being taken advantage of in the workplace are pretty slim), evidence of skills training and/or higher education, demonstrable work history in a field which is required in the US, etc etc etc.   Many western countries (Australia, Italy, Germany just to name ones that I know of personally) require people applying for citizenship and sometimes even LPR to show a basic ability to speak the local language. To me, it's a no-brainer - how can anyone expect to be successful in a country where they don't speak the language and can't communicate easily on a daily basis?

 

At the moment the ability to sponsor family members is very much weighing things unfairly towards "who you know" - if you're a person who doesn't meet any basic criteria except that you have a direct family member in the US who makes enough money to sponsor you, you're gonna have a bad time (As a working-age individual, anyhow - totally different story for minor children and/or aged parents).  But what about the person next door who has vital skills but can't otherwise immigrate (because all the work-sponsored visas are actually quite difficult to get approved) because they aren't related to a USC?   Admittedly a lot of this even going back multiple generations, has a lot to do with luck but personally I'd love to see the removal of the automatic benefit/privilege for those related to (relatively more) wealthy USC's.  

 

The one point I do disagree is about poverty.   I have known several people who have stated explicitly that living in Poverty in a "First World"/Western country is a hell of a lot better than living in poverty in a "Third World" country.

The conversation at the time I was having was to point out there is a large gap between requirements it takes to retire here and what is required to immigrate here. I believe we need to fix this gap in requirements so people aren't forced to live off the US system and struggle not to be able to afford prescriptions/medical appointments as needed. I live in a immigrant neighbor and witnessed this last Friday when a Latino family couldn't pay for their 650 dollar prescription because they didnt have insurance. The mother couldn't speak English well and have the 8 year old son trying to discuss the matter with the pharmacist.  I work in health care and now how much is can cost medical conditions and emergencies can cost. That is strictly my point, which I went on to make further in the conversations. 

 

 

 

[AshMarty 360]

7 hours ago, mustang85635 said:

Exactly . I agree 100 percent . 

Especially the person that said Trump is going to bring this country to third world status quickly, Im sorry but how disillusioned do you have to believe this in all honesty . Just makes me know on what kind of level of knowledge about the world you are on and the amout you have actually travelled to a third world country . Most likely ZERO visited. 

One point is that "third world country" is kind of an obsolete term that arose out of the cold war primarily to do with the nuclear arms race and NATO. My very educated and kind co-worker from a said "third world country" pointed this out to me one day. As she stated many people in her country of Jamaica love living there and would live no where else.

 

The second point as stated above that was a response to another was that retirement age insurance/financial requirements to immigrant to the US fall very short of what is actually takes to retire in the US with proper care and coverage. We should be setting realistic requirements for immigrants of retirement age so to ensure they can afford medical appointments and medications. You can refer to my many examples in this string I already used in the previous discussions because I am sure people are tired of hearing them at this point. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by AshMarty

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

2 hours ago, AshMarty said:

One point is that "third world country" is kind of an obsolete term that arose out of the cold war primarily to do with the nuclear arms race and NATO. My very educated and kind co-worker from a said "third world country" pointed this out to me one day. As she stated many people in her country of Jamaica love living there and would live no where else.

 

The second point as stated above that was a response to another was that retirement age insurance/financial requirements to immigrant to the US fall very short of what is actually takes to retire in the US with proper care and coverage. We should be setting realistic requirements for immigrants of retirement age so to ensure they can afford medical appointments and medications. You can refer to my many examples in this string I already used in the previous discussions because I am sure people are tired of hearing them at this point. 

You do raise a valid point. Given a choice my wife would much rather be in her 3rd world country than the USA. We are looking at moving there when I retire 

[AshMarty 360]

12 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

You do raise a valid point. Given a choice my wife would much rather be in her 3rd world country than the USA. We are looking at moving there when I retire 

It really is interesting according to the definition of third world country. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

 

"Historically, some European countries were non-aligned and a few of these were and are very prosperous, including Ireland, Austria, Sweden, Finland, and Switzerland." 

 

Some of these countries were considered "third and second world countries" Many poor Americans would love to run away to Sweden. Hahaha. Some rich Americans would love too also. Hahaha 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by AshMarty

[charmander 692]

34 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

You do raise a valid point. Given a choice my wife would much rather be in her 3rd world country than the USA. We are looking at moving there when I retire 

I recently looked at my SSA benefits. Even if I tap my benefits at age 62, that'd still make me a rich man in Turkey. x2 with wife's benefits. Our dream retirement now is a condo by the Mediterranean or Aegean coast, visa-free travel across Europe thanks to US passport, and from time to time come back home to see the grandchildren. 25 years to go.

Edited February 8, 2018 by charmander

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

14 minutes ago, charmander said:

I recently looked at my SSA benefits. Even if I tap my benefits at age 62, that'd still make me a rich man in Turkey. x2 with wife's benefits. Our dream retirement now is a condo by the Mediterranean or Aegean coast, visa-free travel across Europe thanks to US passport, and from time to time come back home to see the grandchildren. 25 years to go.

 I did this last week because even though I am only 34 right now I can retire in 2030 as Federal Employee with 25 years in service counting my military time. So the DOD has a program that calculates everything up for you and it had me looking nice if I retire at 50 and only pull my SSA at 62. Because I would already have my TSP/401k coming in and my VA benefits, and that's not even counting my wife's benefits when she starts working this year as a nurse. We would be able to live in the Philippines for CHEAP

[AshMarty 360]

6 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

 I did this last week because even though I am only 34 right now I can retire in 2030 as Federal Employee with 25 years in service counting my military time. So the DOD has a program that calculates everything up for you and it had me looking nice if I retire at 50 and only pull my SSA at 62. Because I would already have my TSP/401k coming in and my VA benefits, and that's not even counting my wife's benefits when she starts working this year as a nurse. We would be able to live in the Philippines for CHEAP

Haha. Retiring in Australia is really expensive and the country won't just let me in without proving I can afford to retire there and be able to afford it. Go figure.  I guess this is not a benefit of marrying someone from a "first world country" hahahaha

Edited February 8, 2018 by AshMarty

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 minute ago, AshMarty said:

Haha. Retiring in Australia is really expensive and the country won't just let me in without proving I can afford to retire there and be able to afford it. Go figure.  I guess this is not a benefit of marrying someone from a "first world country" hahahaha

Well as of right now if I retire at 50 I would be able to retire with about $40k a year tax free. BEFORE I would ever touch my 401k or SSA. I just hope we don't get hit for some kind of emergency every month. But my wife is good about fending those off.

Edited February 8, 2018 by cyberfx1024

[Boiler 45,528]

42 minutes ago, charmander said:

I recently looked at my SSA benefits. Even if I tap my benefits at age 62, that'd still make me a rich man in Turkey. x2 with wife's benefits. Our dream retirement now is a condo by the Mediterranean or Aegean coast, visa-free travel across Europe thanks to US passport, and from time to time come back home to see the grandchildren. 25 years to go.

Is Turkey still charging US Passport holders significantly more to visit?

 

My first trip was  hmmmm a very long time ago, and then Bodrum when is started becoming a  tourist destination, bit too close to all the action in the ME however.

17 minutes ago, AshMarty said:

Haha. Retiring in Australia is really expensive and the country won't just let me in without proving I can afford to retire there and be able to afford it. Go figure.  I guess this is not a benefit of marrying someone from a "first world country" hahahaha

Sounds very Trumpist, racist?

[AshMarty 360]

17 minutes ago, Boiler said:

 

Sounds very Trumpist, racist?

 Soooooo you are saying since I am American, I am entitled to retire in Australia and live off Australia's system (it does sound a little more put together than Americas system).... Hahahahaha

 

Australia apparently created Trumpism before it was a thing. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by AshMarty

[Boiler 45,528]

1 minute ago, AshMarty said:

 Soooooo you are saying since I am American, I am entitled to retire anywhere I want and live off Australia's system (it does sound a little more put together than Americas system).... Hahahahaha

 

 

Sauce for the Goose?

[charmander 692]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Is Turkey still charging US Passport holders significantly more to visit?

 US Passport holders pay $20. Same as UK passports. Schengen countries are exempt from visa.