Democrats melt down over Nunes memo and enter the Upside Down

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Just now, Neonred said:

The FBI used a document commissioned by one presidential campaign as a justification to spy on another.  Maybe it was the basis for the warrent or maybe it was only used in part.  Either way, if the FBI had to use it in its application, it means it didn’t have enough other evidence to justify surveillance.

Not at all true.

 

It was definitely only part of their application because even the memo references other parts at the end (surviellance of Papadopoulos). If they had other evidence that corrobated information from the Steele Dossier (specifically the information on Page) it may have only been used as supporting evidence.

 

Also to be clear the application was to monitor a specific person, not a campaign. You can't inflate Carter Page to mean the whole Trump campaign.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

15 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

So what's so wrong right now. That's right , nothing. Country is in the best shape in decades 

 

Sorry if we think it's a big deal that the FBI became politicized and actively worked against the free and Democratic process of our cornerstone of freedom,  while spying on political candidates,  while  pushing a very fake Russian narrative.  Stalin would be proud, and those that dismiss it for partisan reasons should hang your collective heads.

 

Cry me a river.

[Boiler 46,073]

19 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

So what's so wrong right now. That's right , nothing. Country is in the best shape in decades 

 

Sorry if we think it's a big deal that the FBI became politicized and actively worked against the free and Democratic process of our cornerstone of freedom,  while spying on political candidates,  while  pushing a very fake Russian narrative.  Stalin would be proud, and those that dismiss it for partisan reasons should hang your collective heads.

 

I do not find it that it happened that surprising, I find some people's attitude to it more worrying, this is a big deal.

[yuna628 9,712]

22 minutes ago, Neonred said:

The FBI used a document commissioned by one presidential campaign as a justification to spy on another.  Maybe it was the basis for the warrent or maybe it was only used in part.  Either way, if the FBI had to use it in its application, it means it didn’t have enough other evidence to justify surveillance.

Oh my goodness... where to start. The FBI did NOT use the Steele dossier as a justification to spy on the Trump campaign. The memo does not say this anywhere. The dossier was used as a collection of suspicion of evidence to further take a look at Carter Page and other individuals. Carter Page is a spy. He had been under watch since 2013 and the dossier was only one of a very large supply of things used to reauthorize a continuing warrant. Read the very last paragraph of the 'memo' - there is where you will find the basis of looking at the campaign as a whole (and even in that there would have been a large collection of other things it's not revealing). Do you know how much evidence collection and standards go into a FISA warrant?

 

 

21 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

So what's so wrong right now. That's right , nothing. Country is in the best shape in decades 

 

Sorry if we think it's a big deal that the FBI became politicized and actively worked against the free and Democratic process of our cornerstone of freedom,  while spying on political candidates,  while  pushing a very fake Russian narrative.  Stalin would be proud, and those that dismiss it for partisan reasons should hang your collective heads.

 

No. No it's not NB. It's lost it's soul and a number of other valuable things that it will take decades to reclaim, if ever again.

 

The only person proud, is Putin.

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4 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I do not find it that it happened that surprising, I find some people's attitude to it more worrying, this is a big deal.

I can't really judge if it's a big deal without knowing how typical FISA applications are conducted, and the full extent of the application for surveillance on Page. We have the "word" of this memo to tell us that the Dossier played a substantial role in the application. That is subjective at best, and I'd like a primary source to show me that instead of just the opinion of a memo written by the office of a heavily biased politician that has already shown the ability to lie and mislead in support of his President.

 

The memo was far from transparent, despite its intention to be so. It leaves too much out. So you either jump to conclusions (which is what the writers of the memo are hoping people will do with the limited information they provide), or you remain skeptical without actual complete transparency.

Edited February 4, 2018 by bcking

[yuna628 9,712]

30 minutes ago, bcking said:

Not at all true.

 

It was definitely only part of their application because even the memo references other parts at the end (surviellance of Papadopoulos). If they had other evidence that corrobated information from the Steele Dossier (specifically the information on Page) it may have only been used as supporting evidence.

 

Also to be clear the application was to monitor a specific person, not a campaign. You can't inflate Carter Page to mean the whole Trump campaign.

I did not know that Carter Page is POTUS. Weird how people are so insanely protective of him. Strange bedfellows huh? Such a nice young man, such an upstanding citizen......

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1 minute ago, yuna628 said:

I did not know that Carter Page is POTUS. Weird how people are so insanely protective of him. Strange bedfellows huh? Such a nice young man, such an upstanding citizen......

Trump at one point claimed he didn't even know who he was, and had never met him. 

 

If that's the case I'm not exactly sure how surveillance on Page was targeting the Trump Campaign as a whole...

[yuna628 9,712]

3 minutes ago, bcking said:

Trump at one point claimed he didn't even know who he was, and had never met him. 

 

If that's the case I'm not exactly sure how surveillance on Page was targeting the Trump Campaign as a whole...

Well that's the thing. If you're running an operation to take a look at Page before he joined Trump, during his time there, and then (yes still even now) afterwards... you're going to find a lot of ugly down that rabbit hole. Thus, you have a lot of scared and desperate people afraid they've said and done some things they shouldn't while hanging around such a dupe... if you get my drift. It's dominos.

 

But you know, I seem to recall so many times before that people say ''hey if you don't do anything wrong then you shouldn't mind them looking''.

Edited February 4, 2018 by yuna628

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

7 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

No. No it's not NB. It's lost it's soul and a number of other valuable things that it will take decades to reclaim, if ever again.

 

The only person proud, is Putin.

It is, actually.  In spite of a lot of stupid things that have changed in the past decade to worsen our country, it still remains THE most desirable to immigrate to for a reason.    The partisan wars aside, it is still a great nation. 

[yuna628 9,712]

1 minute ago, IDWAF said:

It is, actually.  In spite of a lot of stupid things that have changed in the past decade to worsen our country, it still remains THE most desirable to immigrate to for a reason.    The partisan wars aside, it is still a great nation. 

I've always said America was great. It didn't require being made ''great again''. But we are more than just being a desired place to move to.

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4 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

It is, actually.  In spite of a lot of stupid things that have changed in the past decade to worsen our country, it still remains THE most desirable to immigrate to for a reason.    The partisan wars aside, it is still a great nation. 

It's a testament to how great our country is that we can openly talk about, and disagree on, the things that make it great.

 

Group hug time

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 minute ago, yuna628 said:

I've always said America was great. It didn't require being made ''great again''. But we are more than just being a desired place to move to.

It is great.  Other than the direction the previous administration was taking us, I think it still is.  We need to get rid of the racism that was allowed to strengthen, as well as all the partisan in-fighting.  

[yuna628 9,712]

7 minutes ago, bcking said:

It's a testament to how great our country is that we can openly talk about, and disagree on, the things that make it great.

 

Group hug time

Is it going to be a group hug like Ted Cruz awkwardly hugging someone and then punching his wife in the face in the process or is it going to be like when he hugged his daughter and she was like ''yeah nah eww''?

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by yuna628

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1 minute ago, yuna628 said:

Is it going to be a group hug like Ted Cruz awkwardly hugging someone and then punching his wife in the face in the process or is it going to be like when he hugged his daughter and she was like ''yeah nah eww''?

 

IDWAF is definitely in the middle of that hug sandwich...

[bcking 3,157]

8 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

It is great.  Other than the direction the previous administration was taking us, I think it still is.  We need to get rid of the racism that was allowed to strengthen, as well as all the partisan in-fighting.  

We definitely need to get rid of the racism.

 

Like a President who calls some white supremacists very fine people. That kind of support for racism shouldn't be tolerated in our country if we want it to be even greater.

Edited February 4, 2018 by bcking