AP FACT CHECK: Trump's speech doesn't skimp on exaggerations

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

So hopefully Ivanka, Jared, and the Trump sons fade into obscurity once the father finishes his time in office, am I right?

tiffany is gonna swoop in and take this country by storm come 2020. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

 

but, lemme guess, kennedy privilege and bush privilege are real while trump privilege is fake?

but you like the trump dynasty, because that's not political? 

How is the Trump family a dynasty since none of the rest of the family has been in office??????

 

When I mean dynasty or political family it means that a large part of the family has been in politics either local, state, or federal. So his father is Bobby Kennedy, his Uncle was President Kennedy, his other uncle was a Congressman. That all entails a political family or dynasty. Such as in the Philippines say a sister will be Governor, the brother a Senator, and they will term out of their current office. So then the sister will be a Senator, and the brother a Governor.

 

We have given you some examples here in the USA and here are some examples for the Philippines: Marcos's, Duterte's, Aquino's, and the Binay's.

[bcking 3,157]

6 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

tiffany is gonna swoop in and take this country by storm come 2020. 

"Tiffany who?"

- Donald Trump, 2020

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

9 minutes ago, bcking said:

So hopefully Ivanka, Jared, and the Trump sons fade into obscurity once the father finishes his time in office, am I right?

Yep, hopefully they stay out of the political arena. I have no problem being out in the business world trying to make ends meat but don't come into politics.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, cyberfx1024 said:

How is the Trump family a dynasty since none of the rest of the family has been in office??????

 

When I mean dynasty or political family it means that a large part of the family has been in politics either local, state, or federal. So his father is Bobby Kennedy, his Uncle was President Kennedy, his other uncle was a Congressman. That all entails a political family or dynasty. Such as in the Philippines say a sister will be Governor, the brother a Senator, and they will term out of their current office. So then the sister will be a Senator, and the brother a Governor.

 

We have given you some examples here in the USA and here are some examples for the Philippines: Marcos's, Duterte's, Aquino's, and the Binay's.

so you're saying it only bothers you when family members are elected into office, but not when they're appointed by other family. got it.

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, cyberfx1024 said:

How is the Trump family a dynasty since none of the rest of the family has been in office??????

 

When I mean dynasty or political family it means that a large part of the family has been in politics either local, state, or federal. So his father is Bobby Kennedy, his Uncle was President Kennedy, his other uncle was a Congressman. That all entails a political family or dynasty. Such as in the Philippines say a sister will be Governor, the brother a Senator, and they will term out of their current office. So then the sister will be a Senator, and the brother a Governor.

 

We have given you some examples here in the USA and here are some examples for the Philippines: Marcos's, Duterte's, Aquino's, and the Binay's.

So political families that reach their positions through democratic elections are bad (focusing on the US here, I don't know enough about how fair and free the elections in the Philippines are), but focusing power into a family through unelected appointments are okay?

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, cyberfx1024 said:

Yep, hopefully they stay out of the political arena. I have no problem being out in the business world trying to make ends meat but don't come into politics.

The daughter and her husband are already in it. They've been given tremendous political responsibilities in unelected positions without sufficient prior experience in those topics.

 

I agree with you in general that people should rise off their own merits. However if I had to choose between a political family rising through open democratic elections or a family self-appointing other family members to position of power...I'll choose the democratic process.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, bcking said:

The daughter and her husband are already in it. They've been given tremendous political responsibilities in unelected positions without sufficient prior experience in those topics.

 

I agree with you in general that people should rise off their own merits. However if I had to choose between a political family rising through open democratic elections or a family self-appointing other family members to position of power...I'll choose the democratic process.

democratic process with a side order of russian involvement. count me in 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

So political families that reach their positions through democratic elections are bad (focusing on the US here, I don't know enough about how fair and free the elections in the Philippines are), but focusing power into a family through unelected appointments are okay?

I am saying as we all know that Massachusetts is Kennedy territory and the only reason he won his election is because he is a Kennedy. There are states and areas in this country where someone can get elected by family name and I HATE THAT

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, cyberfx1024 said:

I am saying as we all know that Massachusetts is Kennedy territory and the only reason he won his election is because he is a Kennedy. There are states and areas in this country where someone can get elected by family name and I HATE THAT

Ya I agree with you on that. Though at the end of the day the elections are at least still (hopefully) fair and free. The name absolutely is a big part of it, but people aren't being coerced into checking his name. The familiarity is just a massive advantage.

 

I'm not sure how we could change that though. As long as members of the family want to try for office, they will always have that advantage.

 

The more dangerous situations, in my opinion, are the unelected family appointments. Kennedy appointing Bobby to be AG, for example. The responsibilities being laid on Ivanka and Jared are equally disappointing, in my opinion. They are in no way the most qualified for the jobs they are given. It is Nepotism at its most basic.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

7 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

so you're saying it only bothers you when family members are elected into office, but not when they're appointed by other family. got it.

 

7 minutes ago, bcking said:

So political families that reach their positions through democratic elections are bad (focusing on the US here, I don't know enough about how fair and free the elections in the Philippines are), but focusing power into a family through unelected appointments are okay?

I see that you two would rather be peons and slaves for DECADES to a ruling family. Good luck with that.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, cyberfx1024 said:

 

I see that you two would rather be peons and slaves for DECADES to a ruling family. Good luck with that.

um. you're the trump fan. 

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

 

I see that you two would rather be peons and slaves for DECADES to a ruling family. Good luck with that.

We have to be clear on the options/alternatives:

 

1. I would rather have a politician from a "political family" that is ELECTED through a DEMOCRATIC vote (assuming free and fair voting), than have a family that is advanced in power through UNELECTED political appointments.

 

2. I would rather have politicians ELECTED by virtue of their OWN MERITS than politicians ELECTED by virtue of their FAMILY NAME

 

Is that more clear?

 

I think we honestly agree on this, since you said you agreed that you would hope that the Trump family stays out of the "political arena". I think where we have an issue is you aren't acknowledging that the daughter and her husband have ALREADY been put into the political arena by her father, through nepotism.

Edited January 31, 2018 by bcking

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

Just now, smilesammich said:

um. you're the trump fan. 

Your the one advocating for a political dynasty to be able to run and hold office for literally decades. You keep talking about Trump Trump Trump but his family haven't been in office since the 60's. If his sons or daughters want to run off of name recognition then I will be right there beside you but as of right now they aren't doing that.

1 minute ago, bcking said:

We have to be clear on the options/alternatives:

 

1. I would rather have a politician from a "political family" that is ELECTED through a DEMOCRATIC vote (assuming free and fair voting), than have a family that is advanced in power through UNELECTED political appointments.

 

2. I would rather have politicians ELECTED by virtue of their OWN MERITS than politicians ELECTED by virtue of their FAMILY NAME

 

Is that more clear?

Yes, that is more clear thank you.

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, cyberfx1024 said:

Your the one advocating for a political dynasty to be able to run and hold office for literally decades. You keep talking about Trump Trump Trump but his family haven't been in office since the 60's. If his sons or daughters want to run off of name recognition then I will be right there beside you but as of right now they aren't doing that.

 

i am? good lord, where? please quote me. 

*as of right now, his boys are running the family business. and ivanka/jared are serving in unelected positions.