foreign equivalent of a HS diploma

[Eugenio 0]

Just another proof that Americans treat everybody else as idiots.

???

I beg your pardon.

[Tinker 0]

I work as a GED examiner and there have been many people from countless countries who had to get their GEDs. Many of these people had college and or doctorate (sp?) degrees from their home countries. The cool thing about Arizona is the test is offered in Spanish and French.

Good luck!

I wrote my GED here in April. My SO told me that I would need it for any job down there. I worked as a legal assistant to 2 lawyers, who entered Queens as mature students and did not have their High School Diplomas. I also work with a nurse who entered as a mature student without her diploma.

Even though I really didn't need my GED up here, I feel better I have it. Just for piece of mind.

UM just thought of something, is the Canadian GED equivilant to the Amercian GED? There was a Canadian version and an American version, we had to make sure we put in the right code for Canadian.

Edited May 25, 2007 by Tinker

[JamalNTam 1]

I work as a GED examiner and there have been many people from countless countries who had to get their GEDs. Many of these people had college and or doctorate (sp?) degrees from their home countries. The cool thing about Arizona is the test is offered in Spanish and French.

Good luck!

wait .. so I wanted to attend college in Pima and I will need to get a diploma or GED even though I went to high school, passed my exams and went to college and took a-levels in the uk??!! Is this rule just to where you work or the whole of AZ/US? So do international students need to do all that or am i just not understanding this??

[Tinker 0]

I think they mean, you should get a copy of your high school diploma before you leave.

oops you left already. Guess you can just call the college ahead of time and ask them, then request a copy if you need one.

Edited May 25, 2007 by Tinker

[JamalNTam 1]

ahhh - thats cool - I got all my exam certificates and things with me - so hopefully that should be ok.

[Tinker 0]

There ya go

I'm getting everything to bring with me too, certificates, diplomas, might even redo the police certificate

[ChristinaM 0]

I had to fight with my college to get my A-Levels recognised as valid high school education (even though GCSEs are equivalent to a basic HS diploma, and I have 5 A-Levels), and I had to fight with them again to prevent myself from having to repeat work I'd done when I was 14 years old

My employer, however, took me at my word about what my qualifications were, and it hasn't been a problem. That being said, I work in sales, where they tend to be a little more flexible about qualifications and more appreciative of "life experience" (of which I have plenty!).

[homesick_american 1]

I had to fight with my college to get my A-Levels recognised as valid high school education (even though GCSEs are equivalent to a basic HS diploma, and I have 5 A-Levels), and I had to fight with them again to prevent myself from having to repeat work I'd done when I was 14 years old

My employer, however, took me at my word about what my qualifications were, and it hasn't been a problem. That being said, I work in sales, where they tend to be a little more flexible about qualifications and more appreciative of "life experience" (of which I have plenty!).

Who says? At my previous job there were a lot of 16 and 17 year-olds right out of school with a couple of GCSEs and I gotta say...I don't agree that they were educated to HS diploma level.

[ChristinaM 0]

HA, the generally accepted equivalency seems to be that 5 GCSEs at C or above are roughly equivalent to a basic HS diploma, and that A-Levels are roughly equivalent to AP classes. That was what I found when I was trying to "Americanise" my CV.

Anybody who only manages "a couple of GCSEs" would not have a HS diploma. When I took mine (1999), only the kids considered special ed took less than 6. 3 A-Levels are needed to get into pretty much any university - be it a rebranded polytechnic or not. If they're roughly equivalent to AP classes, then aren't we requiring more of the kids who go to uni in the UK than we are of the kids who go to college in the US? I'm covering work in intermediate community college math classes right now that I did when I was 13 years old. There's definitely a difference in the material learnt (which was a diplomatic way of saying "the quality of education, IMHO" ).

But that's a tangent.

[JamalNTam 1]

HA, the generally accepted equivalency seems to be that 5 GCSEs at C or above are roughly equivalent to a basic HS diploma, and that A-Levels are roughly equivalent to AP classes. That was what I found when I was trying to "Americanise" my CV.

Anybody who only manages "a couple of GCSEs" would not have a HS diploma. When I took mine (1999), only the kids considered special ed took less than 6. 3 A-Levels are needed to get into pretty much any university - be it a rebranded polytechnic or not. If they're roughly equivalent to AP classes, then aren't we requiring more of the kids who go to uni in the UK than we are of the kids who go to college in the US? I'm covering work in intermediate community college math classes right now that I did when I was 13 years old. There's definitely a difference in the material learnt (which was a diplomatic way of saying "the quality of education, IMHO" ).

But that's a tangent.

11 GCSEs will be ok - I have 3 alevels but I didnt get great grades

Edited May 25, 2007 by JamalNTam

[ChristinaM 0]

I think you're ok

I have 10 GCSEs and 5 A-Levels, and other than having to explain what the approximate equivalencies are, I've made it through!

Edit for typos

Edited May 25, 2007 by ChristinaM

[homesick_american 1]

HA, the generally accepted equivalency seems to be that 5 GCSEs at C or above are roughly equivalent to a basic HS diploma, and that A-Levels are roughly equivalent to AP classes. That was what I found when I was trying to "Americanise" my CV.

I suppose high school is what you make of it, then. I finished the high school curriculum after three years and spent my senior year racking up college credit. I matriculated as a sophomore with forty hours of credit and a 4.0 GPA. However, my high school diploma is just that...a high school diploma. It's the same piece of paper that the C-students who limped through high school get. I think it's sort of insulting to compare that to 5 GCSEs at C; you can't generalize them like that.

Anybody who only manages "a couple of GCSEs" would not have a HS diploma. When I took mine (1999), only the kids considered special ed took less than 6. 3 A-Levels are needed to get into pretty much any university - be it a rebranded polytechnic or not. If they're roughly equivalent to AP classes, then aren't we requiring more of the kids who go to uni in the UK than we are of the kids who go to college in the US? I'm covering work in intermediate community college math classes right now that I did when I was 13 years old. There's definitely a difference in the material learnt (which was a diplomatic way of saying "the quality of education, IMHO" ).

I'd agree that the 16 year-olds at my old company were functionally illiterate and innumerate...definitely. We had one guy who had an A-level in math but who did not know how to divide fractions. I have a French degree and I haven't taken a math class since uni, but I know how to divide a bloody fraction. I made the mistake of assuming that *everyone* knew how to do that.

I don't agree that A-levels are all that rigorous, given how my teacher friends talk. A friend of mine (with a Ph.D. in pure mathematics) teaches A-level math and I've seen the textbook he uses. My second-year algebra class in high school was tougher. Another friend of mine who is a lecturer at the local university says that he now has to waste a lot more time covering the basics than he used to, and that some modern science degrees aren't worth a squirt of piss because they spend up to a year teaching algebra, calculus, basic chemistry, and basic physics to kids who got As and Bs in those subjects at A-level. I'm certain that a lot of the kids who got As and A*s on their A-levels deserved them and busted their a$$es to get them, but I think that there is also a lot of grade inflation going on and that is clearly demonstrated by universities in the UK having to devote more and more time to remedial instruction, and by some universities wanting to introduce their own entrance exams because it's hard to distinguish between quality candidates and those with inflated grades. It isn't fair...not to anyone involved. The kids are the real losers.

As for your intermediate math classes....they shouldn't allow you to even take math classes unless you've taken a placement test. That was the way it went at my university; everybody who matriculated at the University of Texas at Austin was required to take a math placement test unless you already had credit for college-level math. Your score was what they used to place you in the appropriate course...not the classes you took in high school. They offer remedial instruction at community colleges for people who didn't learn it well enough the first time around, but if you took a placement test and demonstrated that you had mastered the material, you shouldn't be covering old ground (and wasting your money in the process). Almost all of the math courses they offered at CCs in Dallas County were available at my high school.

The lowest-level course offered at my uni was college Algebra...and that was only for provisionally admitted students or students scoring under 400 on the math SAT-II, and it was only offered during the summer session. The next lowest-scoring group was thrown into calculus or theoretical courses. You can't say that because you're taking a mathematics class at a community college that covers material you learned as a teenager, American tertiary math instruction must necessarily be poor. That certainly is not how it worked at my university. If you didn't learn that stuff the first time around, you'd have trouble getting into my uni and they sure as hell weren't going to go over it again with anyone. Enroll at UT-Austin and I guarantee you you won't be bored by material you learned at 13.

[ChristinaM 0]

That's what I find so disturbing about my math classes, HA. I have just finished college algebra & trig, which was the highest level math course they would let me enter at. I was reading Physics at university in the UK, and despite my placement test scores, they still bitched me out when I went to sign up because I hadn't taken their prereq. Perhaps it's because they don't see as many foreigners in Maine colleges as they do in Texas - I'm sure that if I lived in Boston, the colleges would be more rigorous and they would be more familiar with what I already hold. I start Precalc next week, and there isn't a single topic in there that I didn't cover in secondary school. I find that disturbing.

As far as the UK goes, I was in the last year to take the "old-style" A-Levels. None of this As/A2 BS. Having looked at the syllabus recently (trying to figure out if it's worth getting my A-Levels evaluated for credit), I would agree that there are serious flaws with the current education system in the UK. My mother was telling me not that long ago that you can write a GCSE English Language paper(!) in txt spk and still pass, which I think is truly appalling.

[homesick_american 1]

That's what I find so disturbing about my math classes, HA. I have just finished college algebra & trig, which was the highest level math course they would let me enter at. I was reading Physics at university in the UK, and despite my placement test scores, they still bitched me out when I went to sign up because I hadn't taken their prereq. Perhaps it's because they don't see as many foreigners in Maine colleges as they do in Texas - I'm sure that if I lived in Boston, the colleges would be more rigorous and they would be more familiar with what I already hold. I start Precalc next week, and there isn't a single topic in there that I didn't cover in secondary school. I find that disturbing.

There's no such thing as a national curriculum at any level in the United States, so it's a good idea to just cough up the money for the placement test and be assessed when you switch schools because the course content can vary widely from school to school. I don't think it has anything to do with you being foreign. Why are you even taking math classes at a CC if you've already done the material? Why not just take the placement test?

As far as the UK goes, I was in the last year to take the "old-style" A-Levels. None of this As/A2 BS. Having looked at the syllabus recently (trying to figure out if it's worth getting my A-Levels evaluated for credit), I would agree that there are serious flaws with the current education system in the UK. My mother was telling me not that long ago that you can write a GCSE English Language paper(!) in txt spk and still pass, which I think is truly appalling.

Yep, she is correct. I don't think one can fairly say that the current UK education system is superior to the current US one, and in some ways it's inferior due to its disjointed nature and obsession with random "qualifications" instead of finally adopting a baccalaureate system like every other civilized nation on earth (including the United States). That's not to say that there isn't a lot of work to do in the US, because when we're coming in near the bottom of the table of wealthy nations we are clearly doing something wrong. However, unlike most of those countries, we do not stream students. Everybody goes to the same school, everybody is required to take the same classes (more or less), and everybody gets the same diploma at the end of it. A lot of the students we're testing at the high school level would have been streamed out in Europe, so it's not always a fair comparison. We need to do better, though. Much better. One of the only things I agree with Bush on is the soft bigotry of low expectations. We're screwing ourselves.

Neither the UK nor the US is demanding NEARLY enough of its children in this era of PC-no red pens-everybody's a winner-let's inflate our position on the league table GARBAGE. It's embarrassing and it's not going to do either country any good going forward.

[ChristinaM 0]

I did take the placement test!! I did, I did!

The college promptly ignored it. Maybe they looked at me and thought, "nah, she looks dumb. She couldn't have" or something, but c'est la vie. I'm at a CC because I'm not in a financial position to take courses at the state university. It's a long story, but suffice to say I've just taken a second job to pay for my CC education.

I agree that both US and UK systems need an overhaul - one of my biggest pet peeves is Tony Blair's obsession with getting every 18 year old through university. There are kids that should never go to university! I think much more needs to be made of vocational education; make them damn fine tradesmen instead of third-rate media studies graduates. Perhaps it's unfair of me to base my opinion of US secondary education on the freshmen I've met in college, but they are the only benchmark I have. Based on that, I can fairly say that high schools in Maine must truly suck.

I have heard of teachers being told to "only mark the mistakes that a child can learn from at that time, because it's discouraging to get a piece of work back covered in red ink". My feeling is that if they don't know about mistakes, they'll go on repeating them until they are habit and much harder to correct in the future. Likewise, I think that streaming kids is a good idea, because it enables teachers to more accurately focus their level of teaching. Once one accepts that not every child is going to be the next Mozart, Einstein or Shakespeare, it's much easier to prepare them appropriately for the real world. Like it or not, life is competitive and being told that you're the best when you're not is not helping anybody. My parents always maintained that it was ok if I wasn't THE best, as long as I had done MY best. The push now seems to be all about not hurting anyone's feelings, which IMHO is woefully inadequate when it comes to "the big, bad world".

But we have deviated far from topic. I am sorry that we hijacked your thread!!