Latest update on DACA and deal for family migration proposed by Trump

[mustang85635 182]

5 minutes ago, falmaind said:

Do you want to stop and rethink your positions again... Your feet are on both sides in my opinion... The same person you are propping (and should be as he deserves it), you are also potentially smothering him.... once he becomes a citizen, you want him to Not be able to get his aging parents close to him (I am assuming a lot of things regarding his family situation to make a point).

 

You may not know me directly. But yes My spouse and I have paid close to half a million in taxes and my parents when here would be here on my dime. And you are rolling us in with the rest of the lot. Parents are a must. I wouldn't mind if such naturalizations are neutered, so to speak. Maybe  not make them eligible for further sponsoring. I'd be fine with that. People like you only want to take advantage of the brilliant minds. But not pay it back for their familial cohesiveness. We need to stop being so selfish.

 

I'm all for limiting sibling migration without merit. I would propose amendment to the sibling visa program, where education and language skills count towards earning points (in addition to other skills). Anyone not meeting those standards gets their application dropped. We'll see a quick improvement in the backlog.

See what you dont take into consideration is that yes you and your spouse paid a lot in taxes that is something as a US Citizen ( i take it ) You will have to do for the rest of your life on your worldwide income , so its not something you can count towards what your parents will cost once they get here . 

 

Option one : They will be covered privately paid by you ( very unlikely given the cost, morally right but unheard of) 

 

Lets say you and your parents will be in the same insurance as I am for the sake of the argument. Insurance obviously works a simple way the young and healthy pay for the sick and old and disabled . Thats usually the rule of thumb and nothing is wrong with that . But because they will have to be insured thanks to Obama even with pre existing conditions they can come here very sick and undertreated which is somewhat  normal for older people from third world countries . So while you paid all those taxes it really has no direct impact since its private business and I would be also the one paying for them since you know health treatment in the US can easily reach six figures with a single operation or treatment . My premiums will go up as a result of it. 

 

Option two : They will be covered by medicare and the taxpayer

 

Same as above but now every taxpayer will pay for them and they will never contribute in the system or pay for it . One or two single treatment or over there last few years where most of someones life treatment cost come from will easily catch up the half a million you paid over the years . 

What you forget is to add the overhead costs you and your spouse cost the governemen you are using roads , schools , airports . So that half a million in taxes is very very little for the overall cost . 

 

You can really not twist and turn it . Parent migration is a big net loss for every US taxpayer. Thats why it should be abolished . 

 

I dont know why but even though I want sibling migration abolished too that makes more sense because at least they will probably contribute somewhat given there age ... So parents category along with the lottery should be the first to go . 

 

 

[mustang85635 182]

1 hour ago, Suudsu said:

Australia has several (temporary and permanent) visa options for parents. They're comparatively expensive though (AUD$6000 - AUD$36000).

 

https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/life/family/article/2016/09/29/12-things-you-need-know-about-australias-new-parent-visa

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/brin/pare

 

Partner migration is also similarly expensive in Australia, which boggles the mind (AUD$7000).

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/brin/part

Yes and no . I have lived in Australia prior to coming here . The new parent category is heavily cappes and qeued . The wait times are very long . You can also only be sponsored on a permanent basis if your health is impecable . The government has doctors overseas that check literally everything it is  very thorough, nothing like here where there was literally nothing just a STD test . 

If you are not healthy you only get a temporary visa where you have to cover the health care yourself . Also the sponsors must sign a form where they have to cover all costs for the parents once they are here . 

There is real enforcement in Australia in terms of immigration and border protection . It is tough but smart and common sense . I miss that a lot . They dont ever give amnesty to anyone but there are clear pathways for you to immigrate if you keep studying and better yourself for everyone . Point based system just what Trump is recommending . 

Edited January 30, 2018 by mustang85635

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

4 hours ago, sparkles_ said:

Tricare. Military....no premiums. Why do you seek so angry? Why did you assume anyone thinks it's a god given right? The choice is still the law, so save your bitterness. It has a 50% chance of staying the law as well. You just sound pissed that your family friend is still waiting around and family reunification is happening while they wait in limbo, along with a dash of assuming what some random person's capabilities are concerning their parents. I mean, your buddy has a wonderful thing to take care of himself as well, called a work permit.....

 

Side note. I am a UNC grad, lol. We are not Ivy League. We are "southern Ivy League", a term for the best schools in the southern states along with Duke and Emory ....but not true Ivy League status. 

 

Im also NOT the immigrant. My parents, my in laws. It's all the same for me. If this remains as an option, we will file for them on the very day we are able. Your Medicare comment was also pretty sideways considering it is also not illegal to do so if need be. You really need to get into politics so you can change all this stuff you feel so strongly about, lol! Talk is cheap. 

I just wanted to add that UNC sucks big time. Go Duke!!!!!! So glad that I am living back in NC now.

Edited January 30, 2018 by cyberfx1024

[falmaind 13]

37 minutes ago, mustang85635 said:

See what you dont take into consideration is that yes you and your spouse paid a lot in taxes that is something as a US Citizen ( i take it ) You will have to do for the rest of your life on your worldwide income , so its not something you can count towards what your parents will cost once they get here . 

-My point is you want to bat for your friend who pays lot of taxes. At the same time you want to ####### on his family aspirations (again i'm assuming to make a point). just a "give me give me" attitude. "I better be at a profit. My country is a business enterprise..." I feel this is a disease of the mind. 

 

Quote

Option one : They will be covered privately paid by you ( very unlikely given the cost, morally right but unheard of) 

 

Lets say you and your parents will be in the same insurance as I am for the sake of the argument. Insurance obviously works a simple way the young and healthy pay for the sick and old and disabled . Thats usually the rule of thumb and nothing is wrong with that . But because they will have to be insured thanks to Obama even with pre existing conditions they can come here very sick and undertreated which is somewhat  normal for older people from third world countries . So while you paid all those taxes it really has no direct impact since its private business and I would be also the one paying for them since you know health treatment in the US can easily reach six figures with a single operation or treatment . My premiums will go up as a result of it. 

 

Option two : They will be covered by medicare and the taxpayer

 

Same as above but now every taxpayer will pay for them and they will never contribute in the system or pay for it . One or two single treatment or over there last few years where most of someones life treatment cost come from will easily catch up the half a million you paid over the years . 

What you forget is to add the overhead costs you and your spouse cost the governemen you are using roads , schools , airports . So that half a million in taxes is very very little for the overall cost . 

A person who paid maybe $10k in taxes during their lifetime has been living off of my taxes paid once they hit eligibility (in a myriad of possible scenarios given so many welfare programs). Do you want to start doing micro accounting? I would definitely prefer to save maybe a quarter million of the taxes I paid so that I can spend it on care of my parents when they are here? That reveals a myopic vision unfortunately. Unable to see past  your nose basically. Nonetheless our plan is to cover them with private insurance for which we have been saving. 

 

Quote

You can really not twist and turn it . Parent migration is a big net loss for every US taxpayer. Thats why it should be abolished . 

 

I dont know why but even though I want sibling migration abolished too that makes more sense because at least they will probably contribute somewhat given there age ... So parents category along with the lottery should be the first to go . 

 

 

Statements borne out of 100% calculations 0% humanity. For some reason this is a business enterprise apparently. Do you keep a log of how many times your neighbor helps you out? Do you try to stay in the positive  for a big net profit when you do your monthly accounting of how many times your neighbor helped you out and the help you provided? Or maybe you don't believe in community and keep to yourself?

 

edit: I don't mean you do any of those things. But trying to illustrate community is not a business enterprise

Edited January 30, 2018 by falmaind

[sparkles_ 456]

26 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I just wanted to add that UNC sucks big time. Go Duke!!!!!! So glad that I am living back in NC now.

Those are fightin' words, you should know this, LOL!!!

[mustang85635 182]

1 minute ago, falmaind said:

-My point is you want to bat for your friend who pays lot of taxes. At the same time you want to ####### on his family aspirations (again i'm assuming to make a point). just a "give me give me" attitude. "I better be at a profit. My country is a business enterprise..." I feel this is a disease of the mind. 

 

A person who paid maybe $10k in taxes during their lifetime has been living off of my taxes paid once they hit eligibility (in a myriad of possible scenarios given so many welfare programs). Do you want to start doing micro accounting? I would definitely prefer to save maybe a quarter million of the taxes I paid so that I can spend it on care of my parents when they are here? That reveals a myopic vision unfortunately. Unable to see past  your nose basically. Nonetheless our plan is to cover them with private insurance for which we have been saving. 

 

Statements borne out of 100% calculations 0% humanity. For some reason this is a business enterprise apparently. Do you keep a log of how many times your neighbor helps you out? Do you try to stay in the positive  for a big net profit when you do your monthly accounting of how many times your neighbor helped you out and the help you provided? Or maybe you don't believe in community and keep to yourself?

Actually I am an accountant although primarily in the tax field. This is a discussion we had in the office and most people agree with that sentiment that I have outlined . Now that could be because they are all american born and raised and think that this should never even exist or it could be that they just know the numbers dont add up either way it doesent really matter .

 

Of course I have made it very clear that I am against the parent category so that would include my friend and anyone . I dont make a difference there you have assumed for me . 

 

Yes immgration isnt about compassion its about net gain and loss . Thats the basis of most countries immigration systems if not all . These policies are so old they were there way before all of us so times change and so should the law . 

 

Once thing you and a lot of lefties mix up is that yes there are US born bums that cost way more then they contribute but these people are native born people not “addons” You cant toss them out or deny them entry . Its there god given right. Its like comparing apples and oranges really.

 

We wont agree because you and a lot of others are emotionally invested obviously with trying to sponsor them here , so in my opinion as a rational person I cant have a rational dicussion with you about this . Which is fine we will agree to disagree . 

 

 

[AshMarty 360]

1 hour ago, Suudsu said:

Australia has several (temporary and permanent) visa options for parents. They're comparatively expensive though (AUD$6000 - AUD$36000).

 

https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/life/family/article/2016/09/29/12-things-you-need-know-about-australias-new-parent-visa

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/brin/pare

 

Partner migration is also similarly expensive in Australia, which boggles the mind (AUD$7000).

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/brin/part

The 2 year route costs AUD $47,000 and they want to double the fees. Am I reading that right. Haha. They also admit they will lose money on the parents that do apply. Interesting. 

 

Not to mention the 5 year visa you have to give the government a Bond (that they hold if Welfare system is used) and the steps to apply are pretty intense. Also applicants are required to speak English. It makes the US immigration system look laughable in comparison. I know my husband always says migrating to Oz is difficult. 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by AshMarty

[mustang85635 182]

5 minutes ago, AshMarty said:

The 2 year route costs AUD $47,000. Am I reading that right. Haha. They also admit they will lose money on the parents that do apply. Interesting. 

 

Not to mention the 5 year visa you have to give the government a Bond (that they hold if Welfare system is used) and the steps to apply are pretty intense. It makes the US immigration system look laughable in comparison. I know my husband always says migrating to Oz is difficult. 

 

 

Yes its correct . 

Having gone through both the US system is an absolute joke . 

Australia is a much better country because of the tight border security measures and checks on the welfare systems . I would still live there if it wasnt for my wife . 

Its a complet different point of view there . Left and right completely agree on the merit system and was implemented by both . It has served Australia very well its a superior country in almost every way and very attractive for peope from first would countries just like people from third world countries. 

They have an amazing single payer health care system,and safety welfare net  which can only exist because of that .

Go to any scandinavian country and ask where they would like to immigrate . They will all tell you Aussie. 

Edited January 30, 2018 by mustang85635

[falmaind 13]

3 hours ago, mustang85635 said:

Actually I am an accountant although primarily in the tax field. This is a discussion we had in the office and most people agree with that sentiment that I have outlined . Now that could be because they are all american born and raised and think that this should never even exist or it could be that they just know the numbers dont add up either way it doesent really matter .

 

Of course I have made it very clear that I am against the parent category so that would include my friend and anyone . I dont make a difference there you have assumed for me . 

My point is you only want the good. not claiming you would make an exception for him

 

Quote

 

Yes immgration isnt about compassion its about net gain and loss . Thats the basis of most countries immigration systems if not all . These policies are so old they were there way before all of us so times change and so should the law . 

 

Once thing you and a lot of lefties mix up is that yes there are US born bums that cost way more then they contribute but these people are native born people not “addons” You cant toss them out or deny them entry . Its there god given right. Its like comparing apples and oranges really.

That clearly shows you have painted me already. So I doubt you are gonna hear any of what I say

That is hilarious. "god given right". Since you are an accountant. Numbers need to add up with evidence. So may I speak to this god which said that in the US if you are born, here is a list of your rights. Maybe a numbered list from the claimed source. Sounds a whole lot like religious nuts who were selling salvation. Which led to Martin Luther's (not king) movement which led to AMERICA!

I propose even our citizens need to be a net gain to the country. Throw the bums out to the "****hole" countries.

 

Quote

We wont agree because you and a lot of others are emotionally invested obviously with trying to sponsor them here , so in my opinion as a rational person I cant have a rational dicussion with you about this . Which is fine we will agree to disagree . 

 

 

Again you want to paint me to throw a shade of bias at me. Try to lay out a real argument which would pass for an argument among humans. Not an argument among bunch of calculators. I have siblings who I know would not meet education and language skill requirements I propose for limiting the sibling immigration.

Edited January 30, 2018 by TBoneTX
amend a profanity

[AshMarty 360]

10 minutes ago, mustang85635 said:

Yes its correct . 

Having gone through both the US system is an absolute joke . 

Australia is a much better country because of the tight border security measures and checks on the welfare systems . I would still live there if it wasnt for my wife . 

Its a complet different point of view there . Left and right completely agree on the merit system and was implemented by both . It has served Australia very well its a superior country in almost every way and very attractive for peope from first would countries just like people from third world countries. 

They have an amazing single payer health care system which can only because of that .

Go to any scandinavian country and ask where they would like to immigrate . They will all tell you Aussie. 

My husband and I hope to move back to Australia one day. For now the agreement was to live in the US mostly because of family reasons. Haha If we move I wouldn’t expect to bring my parents with me. 

 

I always laugh at all the border patrol shows when I travel there. Not to mention every time I entered the country with my old passport it redirected me to have to discuss my visit and visa with immigration in Australia. Haha. 

 

So none of it surprises me but I do think that they have their act together. 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by AshMarty

[mallafri76 1,012]

13 hours ago, sparkles_ said:

I'm not too pleased that legal parental sponsorship (among other things) is being offered to the chopping block in exchange for DACA. Sure, doing away with sibling chain migration makes a lot of sense, but parents too? Sometimes this is a must for certain people and situation.

 

It just seems very unfair, the parents of citizens or DACA tradeoff, considering that our parents are willing to do things 200% the right way concerning immigration from start to end. 

Totally agree. Taking away parent immigration will break up families and create hardship. 

[mustang85635 182]

4 minutes ago, falmaind said:

My point is you only want the good. not claiming you would make an exception for him

 

That clearly shows you have painted me already. So I doubt you are gonna hear any of what I say

That is hilarious. "god given right". Since you are an accountant. Numbers need to add up with evidence. So may I speak to this god which said that in the US if you are born, here is a list of your rights. Maybe a numbered list from the claimed source. Sounds a whole lot like religious nuts who were selling salvation. Which led to Martin Luther's (not king) movement which led to AMERICA!

I propose even our citizens need to be a net gain to the country. Throw the bums out to the "shithole" countries.

 

Again you want to paint me to throw a shade of bias at me. Try to lay out a real argument which would pass for an argument among humans. Not an argument among bunch of calculators. I have siblings who I know would not meet education and language skill requirements I propose for limiting the sibling immigration.

Lol this comment just clearly confirmed what I already thought . We are just to far apart and yes you are clearly emotionally involved because you want your parents here so no you are not going to be against it . 

Just look at all the countries that scrapped it recently . Some quick research and you will see that Canada and New Zealand where the last ones to halt it indefinetly or scrap it altogether because of the significant cost on the society . Mainly in form of health care related but also other welfare costs . Thats as good as a proof you will ever get throw in some common sense and you will see it for yourself . 

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

2 minutes ago, mallafri76 said:

Totally agree. Taking away parent immigration will break up families and create hardship. 

 The person that left home to come here broke up the family.  Why should we have to let everyone come here  to undo  someones decision to move out and leave their parents behind  ?   

[mustang85635 182]

4 minutes ago, mallafri76 said:

Totally agree. Taking away parent immigration will break up families and create hardship. 

Break up families ? Ehm they most likely decided in the first place to move to the USA and left them either way also you are a grown human being cant you live without them I mean seriously . Also you are free to move back to wherever that place is no one is keeping you here . My parents live on there own . I visit them , they visit me . If they need money I can send them some . Is my family broken up no haha

[falmaind 13]

13 minutes ago, mustang85635 said:

Lol this comment just clearly confirmed what I already thought . We are just to far apart and yes you are clearly emotionally involved because you want your parents here so no you are not going to be against it . 

Just look at all the countries that scrapped it recently . Some quick research and you will see that Canada and New Zealand where the last ones to halt it indefinetly or scrap it altogether because of the significant cost on the society . Mainly in form of health care related but also other welfare costs . Thats as good as a proof you will ever get throw in some common sense and you will see it for yourself . 

I"m not hiding it. You can look at my post history for my situation. My situation does not change my position.  The only difference it would have made (If I did not have parents who I want to be here is). I would have less energy for all this.

 

 

Clearly throwing the bums out from our society isn't ringing well with you... are you emotionally involved? You completely ignored what I predicted you would ignore. Thankyou 

Edited January 30, 2018 by falmaind