Do We Really Need To File For A CRBA? & Applying For Passport SSN Without CRBA

[jan22 3,056]

41 minutes ago, Mark88 said:

Possible, but I also asked hte consular officer if I hadn't got citzenship throught he CCA, if it would be doable. Both answers were no.

Unfortunately, I suspect someone was unprofessional and taking the easy way out and, based on the CRBA adjudication that recorded non-acquisition of US citizenship,  saying that without actually knowing the answer, in order to close the discussion with you.  Shouldn't happen...but it does.

Edited January 30, 2018 by jan22

[Mark88 184]

1 minute ago, jan22 said:

Or, the immigration officer could say he cannot confIrm they are US citizens for sure and deny them entry as Canadian citizens.

 

It's possible because those entering with immigrant visas who acquire US citizenship under the CCA need to then be able to apply for passports.  

 

No he couldn't, since he doesn't have that authority. Like you mentioned, 2 USC parents = potential claim to US citizenship. An immigration judge would have to get involved and hear the case at least before denying entry.

[Mark88 184]

1 minute ago, jan22 said:

Unfortunately, I suspect someone was unprofessional and taking the easy way out and saying that without actually knowing the answer, in order to close the discussion with you.  Shouldnt happen...but it does.

 Please provide a source, that allows a filing of CRBA after US passports have been issued.

[jan22 3,056]

2 minutes ago, Mark88 said:

 

No he couldn't, since he doesn't have that authority. Like you mentioned, 2 USC parents = potential claim to US citizenship. An immigration judge would have to get involved and hear the case at least before denying entry.

He shouldn't, but he could --- it's happened.  

[Mark88 184]

Just now, jan22 said:

He shouldn't, but he could --- it's happened.  

Anything and everything has happened, know your rights ask for the supervisor and to be heard infront of a judge.

[jan22 3,056]

5 minutes ago, Mark88 said:

 Please provide a source, that allows a filing of CRBA after US passports have been issued.

I'm not sure there is a printed source that specifically states that -- will take a look.  But I know there is no source that says if you have a passport already, you can't apply for the CRBA.  Some newer officers may get confused, since this is the reverse of what they are used to.  Many, for example, will tell you that you HAVE to apply for the CRBA before the passport, which --as you know -- is equally false.

[jan22 3,056]

6 minutes ago, Mark88 said:

Anything and everything has happened, know your rights ask for the supervisor and to be heard infront of a judge.

Easier to apply for a CRBA before travelling, IMO.  

[jan22 3,056]

1 hour ago, Mark88 said:

 Please provide a source, that allows a filing of CRBA after US passports have been issued.

Okay, Mark88, I thoroughly skimmed 7 FAM 1440 on CRBAs.  As I thought, there is no specific statement included that says you can apply for a CRBA after a passport has been issued. However, there also is no statement that says that you cannot do so. The following sections, especially when taken together, support that you can apply for the CRBA after a passport.   The comments in [...] are mine.

               7 FAM 1441.1(g):  "The purpose of issuing a Form FS-240 is to provide a record of the acquisition of US citizenship at birth by a child born in a foreign state that can be used by that citizen throughout life."  [This makes it clear that the CRBA has uses outside a passport application. Therefore, one should be available to any U.S. citizen who qualifies for it.]

               7 FAM 1442 (b):  "...Form FS-240... shall have the same force and effect as proof of U.S. citizenship as certificates of naturalization or of citizenship...".   [Since you can apply for a Certificate of Citizenship after receiving a passport, e.g., after acquiring citizenship under the CCA, you should be able to apply for a CRBA after getting a passport as well. ]

               7 FAM 1443.1(a):  " A consular officer may issue Form FS-240...for any child who is eligible for it upon application made at any time before the child's 18th birthday...".  [This section appears to put no restrictions on applying for a CRBA in any situation.]

 

You also might be interested in Section1445.9, Disapproved Applications for Non-Citizenship. It, in a way, supports the officer who told you that you could not reapply for a CRBA for your first child. However, it also makes it clear that the officer was not complying with the spirit of CRBA adjudication.  Per 7 FAM 1445.9(b):  "Reconsideration:  CA/OCS/L...[the office with lawyers for the Bureau of Consular Affairs Overseas Citizen Services at the State Department] is always willing to review additional evidence provided it is pertinent to the acquisition claim.  Such evidence may have been unavailable at the time of the initial application. No formal application or filing of appeal need be taken when submitting such evidence.  The post should forward an electronic memo summarizing the case with reference to the previous application and attaching the new evidence.  CA/OCS/L will review the case and advise the post accordingly.  [So, right on there being no new application to file.  Wrong for not telling you about the way to have the case reviewed with new evidence.  ]

[kreb michel 0]

Hi, just a quick question about this topic but does the application for a US passport without the CRBA being obtained have to occur inside the USA or can it be done at an embassy?

 

The DS-11 passport application form says:

Quote

- If you claim citizenship through birth abroad to at least one U.S. citizen parent: Submit a Consular Report of Birth (Form FS-240), Certification of Birth (Form DS-1350 or FS-545), or your foreign birth certificate (and official translation if the document is not in English), proof of U.S. citizenship of your parent, your parents' marriage certificate, and an affidavit showing all of your U.S. citizen parents' periods and places of residence/physical presence in the United States and abroad before your birth.

 

Additionally it also says:

 

Quote

ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE: You must establish your citizenship to the satisfaction of the acceptance agent and Passport Services. We may ask you to provide additional evidence to establish your claim to U.S. citizenship. Visit travel.state.gov for details.

 

I am wondering if it is possible or worth it to try this route as it would be cheaper than having to enter the US and claiming through CCA. Would affidavits from US citizens showing I was present in the USA also help? Can this affidavit be local or does it have to be through a special embassy assigned office?

 

(Backstory is that I was already denied a CRBA for insufficient documents. 

 

I was born in the USA and was present until age 21 when I first applied for a USA passport and then left. I was home schooled after 7th grade and received a GED, never attended college or worked while in the USA. My parents are dead and their records long lost and the IRS says they can only be requested up to 10 years which is outside the window. The agent I dealt with did not care about anything before age 14, he said he needed to see two years documented after age 14 and he did not accept the home school or GED records.)

[Hustorm 0]

@nomadicdude  Any update?  I'm in a similar situation where my son was born in Canada to my wife and I, both US citizens.  We had no problem crossing him through the border and they didn't even ask for any of the paperwork that the hospital had given us.  We're in the process now of applying for a passport that we could then use for a SSN.  I contacted the US Consulate in Quebec in reference to applying for a CBRA and they stated that since we already had him home then we would need a certificate of citizenship instead which cost $1170 to file... That price is ridiculous so we're going another route; instead, I'm going to provide a notarized affidavit showing where my wife and I have each individually lived per: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/requirements/citizenship-evidence.html

 

U.S. Citizenship at Birth

If you were born outside the United States and acquired U.S. citizenship through your U.S. citizen parent(s), please submit the following with your passport application:

• Your foreign birth certificate listing your parent(s)
• Your parent(s)’ evidence of U.S. citizenship
• Your parents' marriage certificate, if applicable
• A statement from your U.S. citizen parent(s) detailing all periods and places of their residence or physical presence in the United States and abroad before your birth.

Now, do you or anyone here have any guidance on the statement?  I was a military brat and have accumulated quite the list.

[nomadicdude 0]

On 2/8/2019 at 11:14 AM, Hustorm said:

@nomadicdude  Any update?  I'm in a similar situation where my son was born in Canada to my wife and I, both US citizens.  We had no problem crossing him through the border and they didn't even ask for any of the paperwork that the hospital had given us.  We're in the process now of applying for a passport that we could then use for a SSN.  I contacted the US Consulate in Quebec in reference to applying for a CBRA and they stated that since we already had him home then we would need a certificate of citizenship instead which cost $1170 to file... That price is ridiculous so we're going another route; instead, I'm going to provide a notarized affidavit showing where my wife and I have each individually lived per: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/requirements/citizenship-evidence.html

 

U.S. Citizenship at Birth

If you were born outside the United States and acquired U.S. citizenship through your U.S. citizen parent(s), please submit the following with your passport application:

• Your foreign birth certificate listing your parent(s)
• Your parent(s)’ evidence of U.S. citizenship
• Your parents' marriage certificate, if applicable
• A statement from your U.S. citizen parent(s) detailing all periods and places of their residence or physical presence in the United States and abroad before your birth.

Now, do you or anyone here have any guidance on the statement?  I was a military brat and have accumulated quite the list.

I ended up doing the CRBA 

[Hustorm 0]

5 minutes ago, nomadicdude said:

I ended up doing the CRBA 

Our method also worked out as well.  He now has birth certificates and citizenship in/from both Canada and the US.

[nomadicdude 0]

Just now, Hustorm said:

Our method also worked out as well.  He now has birth certificates and citizenship in/from both Canada and the US.

Confused, how does he have a US birth certificate?

[Hustorm 0]

1 minute ago, nomadicdude said:

Confused, how does he have a US birth certificate?

Being born abroad while having both parents as US citizens.  Has a SSN too.

[nomadicdude 0]

Just now, Hustorm said:

Being born abroad while having both parents as US citizens.  Has a SSN too.

I have Passport, SSN, and CRBA (serves as birth certificate) were you saying you had a US birth certificate issued for your forieing born child?