Trump Holds, Schumer Folds': Pundits React to Deal to End Gov't Shutdown

[Dashinka 24,492]

26 minutes ago, bcking said:

So in that plan the money comes in the form of the "small yearly tax" for illegal immigrants requesting legal status? Any estimate of how much money that would raise? Any idea how many illegal immigrants are above poverty level without a criminal record?

 

 We have 12 million illegal immigrants (estimate). Then we have to exclude the ones in poverty or with criminal records. Also you have to factor in that some, when faced with the tax, would choose to leave (which is fine, I'm sure we would give them the option). So with that in mind I'd say it is fair to lower it a bit. Lets say about half, 6 million?

 

How much money would we need to better fund border security and the wall? There is no set number. A report in Feb 2017 claimed 20 billion (for the wall only, not for border security as well). In April another estimate was 70 billion. Lets meet in the middle and say 45 billion dollars.

 

So those 6 million people would each need to pay 7.5 thousand dollars in order to raise those 45 billion dollars. Now "small" is in the eye of the beholder so for some of us that isn't a large amount of money, for others it is quite significant. That is also for just building the wall. The April 2017 figure also didn't include legal fees for acquiring land. Also how much extra do we need for border security? Then once the wall is built, what are the upkeep fees?

 

Do you propose that those former illegal immigrants who are giving LPR are responsible for the entire upkeep in the wall, for perpetuity? Or do we all eventually start sharing in the responsibility?

 

Not saying your plan isn't impossible...but wouldn't necessarily call it "easy". We would need some more accurate figures to really see if it would work.

With 690,000 DACA potentials, not really sure it is feasible unless someone is willing to "tax" them more than 100k each (assumes $70 billion for the wall).

Edited January 23, 2018 by Bill & Katya

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

55 minutes ago, bcking said:

So in that plan the money comes in the form of the "small yearly tax" for illegal immigrants requesting legal status? Any estimate of how much money that would raise? Any idea how many illegal immigrants are above poverty level without a criminal record?

 

 We have 12 million illegal immigrants (estimate). Then we have to exclude the ones in poverty or with criminal records. Also you have to factor in that some, when faced with the tax, would choose to leave (which is fine, I'm sure we would give them the option). So with that in mind I'd say it is fair to lower it a bit. Lets say about half, 6 million?

 

How much money would we need to better fund border security and the wall? There is no set number. A report in Feb 2017 claimed 20 billion (for the wall only, not for border security as well). In April another estimate was 70 billion. Lets meet in the middle and say 45 billion dollars.

 

So those 6 million people would each need to pay 7.5 thousand dollars in order to raise those 45 billion dollars. Now "small" is in the eye of the beholder so for some of us that isn't a large amount of money, for others it is quite significant. That is also for just building the wall. The April 2017 figure also didn't include legal fees for acquiring land. Also how much extra do we need for border security? Then once the wall is built, what are the upkeep fees?

 

Do you propose that those former illegal immigrants who are giving LPR are responsible for the entire upkeep in the wall, for perpetuity? Or do we all eventually start sharing in the responsibility?

 

Not saying your plan isn't impossible...but wouldn't necessarily call it "easy". We would need some more accurate figures to really see if it would work.

It would bigley for sure 

[bcking 3,157]

33 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

With 690,000 DACA potentials, not really sure it is feasible unless someone is willing to "tax" them more than 100k each (assumes $70 billion for the wall).

He had said to tax illegal immigrants, now DACA potentials. That is why I was using a much larger number, but it was obviously a massive guess. How many non-poverty, non-criminal illegal residents do we have that, when told they would be taxed a substantial sum wouldn't leave the US? We have ~12 million illegal immigrants. Pick a number between 1 and 12 million, I went in the middle to be conservative and give his plan the "benefit of the doubt"

 

I can occasionally be nice to NB you know

Edited January 23, 2018 by bcking

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

30 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

With 690,000 DACA potentials, not really sure it is feasible unless someone is willing to "tax" them more than 100k each (assumes $70 billion for the wall).

I was referring to all illegals. Under my bold plan , those would not be a burden to society or are criminals (other than coming in the country illegal) get to stay with no path to citizenship 

 

There would be a yearly tax also.  we might have to throw some tariffs on to supplement it.

 

I just come up with big ideas. I have people to work out the details 

 

 

Just now, bcking said:

He had said to tax illegal immigrants, now DACA potentials. That is why I was using a much larger number, but it was obviously a massive guess. How many non-poverty, non-criminal illegal residents do we have that, when told they would be taxed a substantial sum wouldn't leave the US? We have ~12 million illegal immigrants. Pick a number between 1 and 12 million, I went in the middle to be conservative and give his plan the "benefit of the doubt"

 

I can occasionally be nice to NB you know

Just for  the record those below the poverty line that require govt assistance get a free bus ride home. 

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Nature Boy Flair said:

I was referring to all illegals. Under my bold plan , those would not be a burden to society or are criminals (other than coming in the country illegal) get to stay with no path to citizenship 

 

There would be a yearly tax also.  we might have to throw some tariffs on to supplement it.

 

I just come up with big ideas. I have people to work out the details 

 

 

How much yearly revenue would you want to raise from those taxes?

 

Simple question, considering your "big ideas"

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Just now, bcking said:

How much yearly revenue would you want to raise from those taxes?

 

Simple question, considering your "big ideas"

I already told you I am a macro thinker,, why dont you work out the math for us 

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I already told you I am a macro thinker,, why dont you work out the math for us 

I've submitted my report that estimates a 7.5 thousand dollar tax, with the very conservative assumption of 6 million illegal immigrants meeting your qualifications, and raising 45 billion dollars.

 

Sound reasonable? I'd think you'd have a hard time getting those 6 million immigrants to all pay that tax, especially if it was yearly. The more who say no (and leave), the less money we have for the wall. 45 billion dollars only covers building it. Doesn't cover acquiring the land, or upkeep, or the border security required to guard it.

 

So big planner...what next?

Edited January 23, 2018 by bcking

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

I've submitted my report that estimates a 7.5 thousand dollar tax, with the very conservative assumption of 6 million illegal immigrants meeting your qualifications, and raising 45 billion dollars.

 

Sound reasonable? I'd think you'd have a hard time getting those 6 million immigrants to all pay that tax, especially if it was yearly. The more who say no (and leave), the less money we have for the wall. 45 billion dollars only covers building it. Doesn't cover acquiring the land, or upkeep, or the border security required to guard it.

 

So big planner...what next?

It would be a ongoing tax. we could bond the wall and pay it back over time. 

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

It would be a ongoing tax. we could bond the wall and pay it back over time. 

Ah well if that is the case then we best start including other figures including legal fees to acquire the land to build as well as on-going maintenance (Up to 750 million dollars annually, it is estimated) as well as actual border protection (the personnel).

 

I'd say you'd still be looking at a fairly hefty untenable tax. Now you could say "Sure, but then those illegals will just leave, and I'm happy about that"...but then we wouldn't have the money to pay for the wall...

[Dashinka 24,492]

18 minutes ago, bcking said:

He had said to tax illegal immigrants, now DACA potentials. That is why I was using a much larger number, but it was obviously a massive guess. How many non-poverty, non-criminal illegal residents do we have that, when told they would be taxed a substantial sum wouldn't leave the US? We have ~12 million illegal immigrants. Pick a number between 1 and 12 million, I went in the middle to be conservative and give his plan the "benefit of the doubt"

 

I can occasionally be nice to NB you know

Sorry, I misunderstood, but aren't those eligible for DACA also technically illegal, so they would fall into the larger population as well.  I do agree, imposing this tax might have the effect of a lot of folks going back home.  Btw, I thin Schumer is doubling down on the no wall funding in any DACA solution, so an impasse may be in the future.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

6 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

With 690,000 DACA potentials, not really sure it is feasible unless someone is willing to "tax" them more than 100k each (assumes $70 billion for the wall).

How many times do I have to 'splain it to you, Mexico is going to pay.   Trump promised.