Trump Holds, Schumer Folds': Pundits React to Deal to End Gov't Shutdown

[Merle 458]

1 minute ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I am with you on part of this I am. But I think they will argue  and ultimately we will be at the same place we are now in 3 weeks. But hey I can stand another 2 days off during the week because the President hasn't signed the bill yet so I am still out of work tomorrow it looks like. 

I found out today I am "mission essential" so everyone here should be happy I worked for free today instead of sitting at home on my lazy government worker butt.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

Just now, Merle said:

I found out today I am "mission essential" so everyone here should be happy I worked for free today instead of sitting at home on my lazy government worker butt.

My whole department was considered "Non-mission essential" today even our director. So only our Contractors stayed in the office today after we came in and filled out some paperwork to just turn around to leave. But hey I only work as a Cyber Security Analyst so that's not mission essential or anything like that. 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

2 hours ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I am with you on part of this I am. But I think they will argue  and ultimately we will be at the same place we are now in 3 weeks. But hey I can stand another 2 days off during the week because the President hasn't signed the bill yet so I am still out of work tomorrow it looks like.

 

Because I think immigration is a fight that will take longer than just 3 weeks because there are some key differences on each side that no one is willing to budge on. I may be wrong on this but it looks like Schumer has showed his hand and proven that he ain't got much to work with at all. So this may mean he may have to capitulate more than what he originally would have if he didn't let the government shutdown. 

Not Schumer's shutdown, the Prez.went off the rails last week in negotiations. He really is a near total failure in making deals.

[Dashinka 24,492]

15 hours ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Even if winning the battle  in the Senate happened, there would not be enough votes in the house for DACA. Trump shafted the DACA applicants when he rescinded the executive order and has no plan to keep his word. They are screwed.

 

The only polls that count this year will happen in November.  The Dems will take the House.

There is still a lot of the year left before then so I am sure they will have a lot more chances to piss off their base before the election.

[Dashinka 24,492]

14 hours ago, bcking said:

As I said, I think it's reflects a poor quality of character for Republicans to act like this is a "win" (Not talking about you, but about Senators in Congress). We shouldn't have had a government shutdown in the first place, and no single political party is to blame for that. Compromise should have come from both sides.

 

They all lost this one. I don't think it should reflect well on either party.

So all those folks in the radical Left that are bashing the Democratic leadership are wrong?

[Dashinka 24,492]

7 hours ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Not Schumer's shutdown, the Prez.went off the rails last week in negotiations. He really is a near total failure in making deals.

Actually, I believe most of the polling did blame the Dems for using an Immigration item like DACA as a means to hold the government hostage.  I am still wondering what platform the Dems are going to run on in November?  Any insight from you on this?  Are they going to run on driving the economy back into the gutter, and a return to higher unemployment?

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

So all those folks in the radical Left that are bashing the Democratic leadership are wrong?

They aren't wrong, but I don't agree with them (right or wrong doesn't really apply here.)

 

I still support DACA, and I supported going through with a shutdown over the issue when a compromise couldn't be made, for the purpose of showing resolve. Once the shutdown occurred, I didn't want it to go on for very long and I support coming to some sort of conclusion to reopen the government.

 

Though I don't really support a 4 week extension. We should all be sick of extensions.

[Dashinka 24,492]

11 minutes ago, bcking said:

They aren't wrong, but I don't agree with them (right or wrong doesn't really apply here.)

 

I still support DACA, and I supported going through with a shutdown over the issue when a compromise couldn't be made, for the purpose of showing resolve. Once the shutdown occurred, I didn't want it to go on for very long and I support coming to some sort of conclusion to reopen the government.

 

Though I don't really support a 4 week extension. We should all be sick of extensions.

I support DACA as well, but I am sure all those folks like you and I do not all agree on the details.  As to the CRs that keep getting passed for short periods, I agree, this is absurd, but the Washington politicians love playing politics.  Considering that the Dems really took a hit on this one trying to hold the government hostage over DACA, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see another shut-down in 3 weeks.

[bcking 3,157]

15 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I support DACA as well, but I am sure all those folks like you and I do not all agree on the details.  As to the CRs that keep getting passed for short periods, I agree, this is absurd, but the Washington politicians love playing politics.  Considering that the Dems really took a hit on this one trying to hold the government hostage over DACA, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see another shut-down in 3 weeks.

Compromise is a two-way street. You can look at it from both directions:

 

Democrats were willing to shut down the government over this issue

Republicans were unwilling to compromise and allowed the government to shut down because they didn't want to grant Democrats a solution for DACA

 

The shutdown is the fault of both groups. When you have a majority, but are lacking a few votes, it is your responsibility to find a compromise in order to gain the votes you need. That was a failure on Republican's part. You can't expect to just go to the Democrats and say "Give us the votes", but refuse to actually give them what they want. At the same time the Democrats needed to be more flexible.

 

We'll see about another shut-down. We'll also see about whether or not Republicans actually bring DACA to the table in that time. If they don't, despite saying they would do, I would support going through the process. Both sides should be held accountable and held to their word.

[Dashinka 24,492]

Just now, bcking said:

Compromise is a two-way street. You can look at it from both directions:

 

Democrats were willing to shut down the government over this issue

Republicans were unwilling to compromise and allowed the government to shut down because they didn't want to grant Democrats a solution for DACA

 

The shutdown is the fault of both groups. When you have a majority, but are lacking a few votes, it is your responsibility to find a compromise in order to gain the votes you need. That was a failure on Republican's part. You can't expect to just go to the Democrats and say "Give us the votes", but refuse to actually give them what they want. At the same time the Democrats needed to be more flexible.

 

We'll see about another shut-down. We'll also see about whether or not Republicans actually bring DACA to the table in that time. If they don't, despite saying they would do, I would support going through the process. Both sides should be held accountable and held to their word.

Yes, compromise is a two-way street.  Before yesterday when the Dems relented, when is the last time the Dems have ever compromised on anything.  The DACA thing is very easy, since almost everyone says they are for protecting the border as well as find a solution for the children that were brought here illegally.  Fund the border wall along with any solution for DACA.  The Dems don't want to be seen as giving Trump a "win" so we know that will not happen.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

There is still a lot of the year left before then so I am sure they will have a lot more chances to piss off their base before the election.

That part is true, they still can screw it up.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Yes, compromise is a two-way street.  Before yesterday when the Dems relented, when is the last time the Dems have ever compromised on anything.  The DACA thing is very easy, since almost everyone says they are for protecting the border as well as find a solution for the children that were brought here illegally.  Fund the border wall along with any solution for DACA.  The Dems don't want to be seen as giving Trump a "win" so we know that will not happen.

Where is the border wall funding coming from? We were told that Mexico will pay.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

18 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Where is the border wall funding coming from? We were told that Mexico will pay.

Easy. Give LPR to all illegals here that dont have a criminal record and are above the poverty level. Shut down future illegal immigration cold. No medical, No jobs, No schools, no sanctuary cities. I mean button down the hatch.

Put a one time fee for all the illegals and a small yearly tax, that are requesting  legal status. Use the money to fund border security and wall. Assuming some parts of it will be virtual sensors etc.

 

BAM  that simple and Mexicans paid for it. (with a few other nationalities helping)

Edited January 23, 2018 by Nature Boy Flair

[bcking 3,157]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Easy. Give LPR to all illegals here that dont have a criminal record and are above the poverty level. Shut down future illegal immigration cold. No medical, No jobs, No schools, no sanctuary cities. I mean button down the hatch.

Put a one time fee for all the illegals and a small yearly tax, that are requesting  legal status. Use the money to fund border security and wall. Assuming some parts of it will be virtual sensors etc.

 

BAM  that simple and Mexicans paid for it. (with a few other nationalities helping)

So in that plan the money comes in the form of the "small yearly tax" for illegal immigrants requesting legal status? Any estimate of how much money that would raise? Any idea how many illegal immigrants are above poverty level without a criminal record?

 

 We have 12 million illegal immigrants (estimate). Then we have to exclude the ones in poverty or with criminal records. Also you have to factor in that some, when faced with the tax, would choose to leave (which is fine, I'm sure we would give them the option). So with that in mind I'd say it is fair to lower it a bit. Lets say about half, 6 million?

 

How much money would we need to better fund border security and the wall? There is no set number. A report in Feb 2017 claimed 20 billion (for the wall only, not for border security as well). In April another estimate was 70 billion. Lets meet in the middle and say 45 billion dollars.

 

So those 6 million people would each need to pay 7.5 thousand dollars in order to raise those 45 billion dollars. Now "small" is in the eye of the beholder so for some of us that isn't a large amount of money, for others it is quite significant. That is also for just building the wall. The April 2017 figure also didn't include legal fees for acquiring land. Also how much extra do we need for border security? Then once the wall is built, what are the upkeep fees?

 

Do you propose that those former illegal immigrants who are giving LPR are responsible for the entire upkeep in the wall, for perpetuity? Or do we all eventually start sharing in the responsibility?

 

Not saying your plan isn't impossible...but wouldn't necessarily call it "easy". We would need some more accurate figures to really see if it would work.

Edited January 23, 2018 by bcking

[Dashinka 24,492]

2 hours ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Where is the border wall funding coming from? We were told that Mexico will pay.

Let the DACA recipients pay for it as part of their program.