Illegal residents to protest openly

[choji 0]

And neither party is going to do anything about it because they want the Hispanic vote.

This is an argument one hears very often, albeit a flawed one in my opinion. Is is a well known fact that the percentage of voters among citizens of Latino/Hispanic descent is traditionally low, although a bit on the rise of lately. However, in the grand scale of things the percentage is still low enough to not have an influence for the time being and the near future.

I would even say that the tendency of the Republicans is just the opposite - as most citizens of Latino/Hispanic descent are traditionally tending to vote for the Democrats, they (the R.) seem to be interested to not have too many of those eligible to vote to exercise their rights.

All of this might change with the changes in the socio-structure in the US, but that will take a few generations to have a real impact.

Ummmm....I beg to differ. The Hispanic voting bloc is already huge, and they're going to surpass the black voting bloc soon if they haven't already. Both parties are desperate to woo Hispanic voters in large numbers, especially since Hispanics are voting Republican more often these days; they were traditionally Democrats. Both parties seem to think that Hispanics are pro-illegal immigration and pro-amnesty. I really wouldn't know either way, but as they comprise the vast majority of illegal immigrants in the USA it's plausible that they might sympathize with the illegals a bit.

In some states the Hispanic vote is already a major factor...particularly in major electoral college prizes like California, Texas, New York, and Florida. It is insanely naive to underestimate their political influence at this point.

Well, that's a new one - I have not been called insanely naive for a long time.

Anyway, if you are interested, take a look at these surveys:

http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/FactSheet...atino_Youth.pdf

http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/FactSheets/FS-Midterm06.pdf

http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/2006_CPHS_Report_update.pdf

Maybe it is insanely naive of me to assume that you are interested in facts and figures, but if you are, these make interesting reading. They also show a side of the picture quite diffferent from the one so often and lovingly touted, most often with the appropriate background music of gloom and destruction of the beloved homeland.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

According to the Pew Hispanic Center (http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/24.pdf), Hispanics are about 8% of the electorate nationwide. State by state, can be as high as 38% in New Mexico, 25% in Texas, 22% in California, 17% in Arizona, 13% in Florida and Nevada.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Here's a new twist on the situation, US citizens are being found lying about their status in order to escape imprisonment for offenses that would get an American thrown in jail. People are also lying about being illegal to get free medical care. It works! That's why they do it.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Here's a new twist on the situation, US citizens are being found lying about their status in order to escape imprisonment for offenses that would get an American thrown in jail. People are also lying about being illegal to get free medical care. It works! That's why they do it.

I'd like to see Bubba claim he's from Guatawhatevermala to get out of jail. I just don't see it. Can you back up these anecdotes?

[Alex+R 0]

Here's a new twist on the situation, US citizens are being found lying about their status in order to escape imprisonment for offenses that would get an American thrown in jail. People are also lying about being illegal to get free medical care. It works! That's why they do it.

Elaborate. Prove.

[homesick_american 1]

And neither party is going to do anything about it because they want the Hispanic vote.

This is an argument one hears very often, albeit a flawed one in my opinion. Is is a well known fact that the percentage of voters among citizens of Latino/Hispanic descent is traditionally low, although a bit on the rise of lately. However, in the grand scale of things the percentage is still low enough to not have an influence for the time being and the near future.

I would even say that the tendency of the Republicans is just the opposite - as most citizens of Latino/Hispanic descent are traditionally tending to vote for the Democrats, they (the R.) seem to be interested to not have too many of those eligible to vote to exercise their rights.

All of this might change with the changes in the socio-structure in the US, but that will take a few generations to have a real impact.

Ummmm....I beg to differ. The Hispanic voting bloc is already huge, and they're going to surpass the black voting bloc soon if they haven't already. Both parties are desperate to woo Hispanic voters in large numbers, especially since Hispanics are voting Republican more often these days; they were traditionally Democrats. Both parties seem to think that Hispanics are pro-illegal immigration and pro-amnesty. I really wouldn't know either way, but as they comprise the vast majority of illegal immigrants in the USA it's plausible that they might sympathize with the illegals a bit.

In some states the Hispanic vote is already a major factor...particularly in major electoral college prizes like California, Texas, New York, and Florida. It is insanely naive to underestimate their political influence at this point.

Well, that's a new one - I have not been called insanely naive for a long time.

Anyway, if you are interested, take a look at these surveys:

http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/FactSheet...atino_Youth.pdf

http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/FactSheets/FS-Midterm06.pdf

http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/2006_CPHS_Report_update.pdf

Maybe it is insanely naive of me to assume that you are interested in facts and figures, but if you are, these make interesting reading. They also show a side of the picture quite diffferent from the one so often and lovingly touted, most often with the appropriate background music of gloom and destruction of the beloved homeland.

Sorry, I don't debate with people who obliquely accuse me of being racist.

You can have the last word if you like.

According to the Pew Hispanic Center (http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/24.pdf), Hispanics are about 8% of the electorate nationwide. State by state, can be as high as 38% in New Mexico, 25% in Texas, 22% in California, 17% in Arizona, 13% in Florida and Nevada.

Significant enough to swing local and statewide elections, definitely...I don't care what anyone else says.

[choji 0]

According to the Pew Hispanic Center (http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/24.pdf), Hispanics are about 8% of the electorate nationwide. State by state, can be as high as 38% in New Mexico, 25% in Texas, 22% in California, 17% in Arizona, 13% in Florida and Nevada.

Excuse me - these are the numbers of Hispanics/Latinos eligible to vote.

The numbers say nothing about the percentage of those eligible who do vote.

If this slight but very important difference is swept under the table, the picture is again one of doom and gloom.

(Start appropriate background music.)

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

According to the Pew Hispanic Center (http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/24.pdf), Hispanics are about 8% of the electorate nationwide. State by state, can be as high as 38% in New Mexico, 25% in Texas, 22% in California, 17% in Arizona, 13% in Florida and Nevada.

Significant enough to swing local and statewide elections, definitely...I don't care what anyone else says.

You're absolutely right. It is significant. And not only in local and statewide, but due to the very large proportions of Hispanic eligible voters in some very large states (CA, TX, FL), the impact extends to the Presidential election (you know, the electoral college and all that).

According to the Pew Hispanic Center (http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/24.pdf), Hispanics are about 8% of the electorate nationwide. State by state, can be as high as 38% in New Mexico, 25% in Texas, 22% in California, 17% in Arizona, 13% in Florida and Nevada.

Excuse me - these are the numbers of Hispanics/Latinos eligible to vote.

The numbers say nothing about the percentage of those eligible who do vote.

If this slight but very important difference is swept under the table, the picture is again one of doom and gloom.

(Start appropriate background music.)

There is nothing doomy and gloomy about Hispanics voting. ####### is wrong with you, why would you say something like that?

[homesick_american 1]

According to the Pew Hispanic Center (http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/24.pdf), Hispanics are about 8% of the electorate nationwide. State by state, can be as high as 38% in New Mexico, 25% in Texas, 22% in California, 17% in Arizona, 13% in Florida and Nevada.

Significant enough to swing local and statewide elections, definitely...I don't care what anyone else says.

You're absolutely right. It is significant. And not only in local and statewide, but due to the very large proportions of Hispanic eligible voters in some very large states (CA, TX, FL), the impact extends to the Presidential election (you know, the electoral college and all that).

Oh, definitely. And Republicans in Texas were desperate to woo Hispanic voters way back in the 1998 and 2000 elections (the last ones I was in the US for).

Oh, and choji...you are naive if you think Hispanics are insignificant in terms of a voting bloc. I mean, if you just want to disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing with me, pick a position that is not so blindingly obviously wrong.

There is nothing doomy and gloomy about Hispanics voting. ####### is wrong with you, why would you say something like that?

I think he/she/it means to imply that *I* think it's something to be scared of. Basically he/she/it seems to be from the 'if you say anything about Hispanics then you must be racist' school of thought.

[Alex+R 0]

There is nothing doomy and gloomy about Hispanics voting. ####### is wrong with you , why would you say something like that?

Classic.

[Caladan 19]

Plus, a path to citizenship means many more *will* be eligible to vote. I'm pretty sure the Hispanic voter numbers only count those who are currently eligible to vote. While the overall number *now* isn't huge, but not insignificant depending on where you are, no one wants to lose the Hispanic vote for the next forty years by being 'the party that wanted to deport my grandma.'

G-E G, I'd be interested to see a link, because from what I understand, it's not like people say 'Whee, I'm illegal' and then law enforcement ushers them to the illegals line, but that illegals get away with things because the proper checks aren't being done, with the result they end up being treated like citizens. So asserting that you're illegal wouldn't get you any more rights than a citizen.

[choji 0]

And neither party is going to do anything about it because they want the Hispanic vote.

This is an argument one hears very often, albeit a flawed one in my opinion. Is is a well known fact that the percentage of voters among citizens of Latino/Hispanic descent is traditionally low, although a bit on the rise of lately. However, in the grand scale of things the percentage is still low enough to not have an influence for the time being and the near future.

I would even say that the tendency of the Republicans is just the opposite - as most citizens of Latino/Hispanic descent are traditionally tending to vote for the Democrats, they (the R.) seem to be interested to not have too many of those eligible to vote to exercise their rights.

All of this might change with the changes in the socio-structure in the US, but that will take a few generations to have a real impact.

Ummmm....I beg to differ. The Hispanic voting bloc is already huge, and they're going to surpass the black voting bloc soon if they haven't already. Both parties are desperate to woo Hispanic voters in large numbers, especially since Hispanics are voting Republican more often these days; they were traditionally Democrats. Both parties seem to think that Hispanics are pro-illegal immigration and pro-amnesty. I really wouldn't know either way, but as they comprise the vast majority of illegal immigrants in the USA it's plausible that they might sympathize with the illegals a bit.

In some states the Hispanic vote is already a major factor...particularly in major electoral college prizes like California, Texas, New York, and Florida. It is insanely naive to underestimate their political influence at this point.

Well, that's a new one - I have not been called insanely naive for a long time.

Anyway, if you are interested, take a look at these surveys:

http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/FactSheet...atino_Youth.pdf

http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/FactSheets/FS-Midterm06.pdf

http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/2006_CPHS_Report_update.pdf

Maybe it is insanely naive of me to assume that you are interested in facts and figures, but if you are, these make interesting reading. They also show a side of the picture quite diffferent from the one so often and lovingly touted, most often with the appropriate background music of gloom and destruction of the beloved homeland.

Sorry, I don't debate with people who obliquely accuse me of being racist.

You can have the last word if you like.

According to the Pew Hispanic Center (http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/24.pdf), Hispanics are about 8% of the electorate nationwide. State by state, can be as high as 38% in New Mexico, 25% in Texas, 22% in California, 17% in Arizona, 13% in Florida and Nevada.

Significant enough to swing local and statewide elections, definitely...I don't care what anyone else says.

Oh dear, another case of "I ran out of arguments. Now I'll accuse the discussion partner of accusing me of ..... (fill in whatever word has the flavour d'jour) and flounce off."

So now I am not only insanely naive, but I also accused you of something which I never implied or said. I have re-read my posting very carefully - how you could come up with that accusation is beyond me.

What I did imply is that maybe you are more interested in slogans than facts or figures. How to arrive from there at the accusation you read from it - sorry, once again, that is beyond me.

Edited April 28, 2007 by choji

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

From the census (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/voting/004986.html):

Sixty-four percent of U.S. citizens age 18 and over voted in the 2004 presidential election.

...

In 2004, turnout rates for citizens were 67 percent for non-Hispanic whites, 60 percent for blacks, 44 percent for Asians and 47 percent for Hispanics (of any race).

Granted, only Asians have a lower turnout rate than Hispanics do. But when 25% of eligible voters are Hispanic (as is the case in TX), 64% of all voters turned out, that comes to about 17% of all votes being from Hispanic voters.

That is still not a small number. Of course, white and black votes significantly outnumber them.

Edited April 28, 2007 by Gupt

[choji 0]

There is nothing doomy and gloomy about Hispanics voting. ####### is wrong with you, why would you say something like that?

If you, Sir, would take the time to read my postings and not just pounce on something out of sequence, then you would apologize to me.

But I assume that both is beyond your capability.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

There is nothing doomy and gloomy about Hispanics voting. ####### is wrong with you, why would you say something like that?

If you, Sir, would take the time to read my postings and not just pounce on something out of sequence, then you would apologize to me.

But I assume that both is beyond your capability.

I like fluffy bunnies. Yay!