Trump Admin Will Protect Health Workers Who Refuse Services On Religious Grounds

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

4 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/new-jersey-nurses-charge-religious-discrimination-over-hospital-abortion-policy/2011/11/15/gIQAydgm2N_story.html?utm_term=.d3a8555d32b1

That link wanted me to pay-- Here is the one I found https://www.ncronline.org/news/people/new-jersey-nurses-sue-hospital-over-abortion-policy

 

I would say, they should not have taken the job there. However they were hired under a policy that allowed them to not participate in abortion services.

2 Things

 

1. If they object so strongly to abortion they should not even want to work in a facility that provides them.

 

2. They did take the job under a policy that excluded them from abortion care. 

 

I would say grandfather in the people already working there, and all new hires had no choice. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

14 minutes ago, -Trinity- said:

Agreed. It's about making choices, and personally I think people should believe what ever they want, and follow what ever rules. But also realize that their choices might cause them not to be hireable at certain places, and as long as they are ok with that, they are fine.

 

I have no clue, I would do something I can't write down here if my husband would mention that he thinks another woman is cute, let alone marry her.

 

. 

 

Easy there, Tigress!  Just think... you’d only have to do HALF the housework!

[-Trinity- 513]

6 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Exactly. You cant dismiss the doctor making choices on religion but support a clerk making choices on religion as relevant. 

 

Kind of like Gay Marriage. I have no problem with it and support that right for people. However if the Govt ever tried to force a church to provide gay marriages, I would go to war against that 

It's a tough discussion, because where does ones rights end and where does someone else's begin?

 

I know that some political parties tried to end circumcision of boys and halal slaughter in the Netherlands awhile ago. Basically this was targeting Muslims, but they didn't count on the strong  Dutch Jewish lobby who prevented this to become law. It would have affected them too.

 

What do you do if you're a doctor and you're against circumcision, but patients demand it. Are you allowed to say no, it's against my beliefs?

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

52 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

NB: If you feel that a doctor refusing to treat a child of a gay parent is discriminatory, then you need to ask why is the HHS sec advocating their right to do so? Why do we need a new branch of government department to allow them to do so?

 

Because if we go this route, as they certainly intend to, this is what will happen.

i already said why. Trump is tossing a bone with no meat on it to  (religious) MDR

[-Trinity- 513]

1 minute ago, IDWAF said:

Easy there, Tigress!  Just think... you’d only have to do HALF the housework!

Lol, no he is already doing the other half. And kids do the rest

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Just now, -Trinity- said:

It's a tough discussion, because where does ones rights end and where does someone else's begin?

 

I know that some political parties tried to end circumcision of boys and halal slaughter in the Netherlands awhile ago. Basically this was targeting Muslims, but they didn't count on the strong  Dutch Jewish lobby who prevented this to become law. It would have affected them too.

 

What do you do if you're a doctor and you're against circumcision, but patients demand it. Are you allowed to say no, it's against my beliefs?

I think a doctor should have the right to refuse anything he finds wrong. It may make them unemployable and have no patients but it's their right.

What if my doctor refuses to prescribe me a new medication he does not like, but others think is wonderful 

 

 

[smilesammich 10,727]

5 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

That link wanted me to pay-- Here is the one I found https://www.ncronline.org/news/people/new-jersey-nurses-sue-hospital-over-abortion-policy

 

I would say, they should not have taken the job there. However they were hired under a policy that allowed them to not participate in abortion services.

2 Things

 

1. If they object so strongly to abortion they should not even want to work in a facility that provides them.

 

2. They did take the job under a policy that excluded them from abortion care. 

 

I would say grandfather in the people already working there, and all new hires had no choice. 

the policy didn't exclude them from aftercare, which was my point.

 

from my link:

 

Quote

Several advocates for women’s health said the nurses are protected from having to directly participate in abortion but have an obligation to care for women otherwise.

“These are health-care professionals who work at a publicly funded hospital saying that they do not want to do the job they were hired to do, including caring for a woman before or after surgery,” said Jennifer Dalven of the American Civil Liberties Union Reproductive Freedom Project. “People have a right to their beliefs, but that shouldn’t give them the right to discriminate against patients who need medical care.”

Susan Berke Fogel of the National Health Law Program, a Washington-based legal advocacy group, agreed.

“If it’s directly participating in an abortion, then the law says they should be able to refuse without being penalized,” Fogel said. “It can’t be just, ‘She’s there to have an abortion’ therefore the person can refuse to even talk to her, refuse to look at her chart or, say, let visitors come up to see her. A hospital has to be able to operate in an orderly fashion. We can’t be having individuals deciding for themselves where the boundary is around what it means to ‘assist.’ ”

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I think a doctor should have the right to refuse anything he finds wrong. It may make them unemployable and have no patients but it's their right.

What if my doctor refuses to prescribe me a new medication he does not like, but others think is wonderful 

 

 

If you feel this way, then why can’t the nurse refuse to care for the post-op abortion patient?

[yuna628 9,676]

8 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

i already said why. Trump is tossing a bone with no meat on it to  (religious) MDR

Why do you think there is no meat on it?

[-Trinity- 513]

7 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I think a doctor should have the right to refuse anything he finds wrong. It may make them unemployable and have no patients but it's their right.

What if my doctor refuses to prescribe me a new medication he does not like, but others think is wonderful 

 

 

And that brings us back to the nurse who refuses to provide aftercare. I personally think that's wrong. When you provide services you know that there will be people who live their lives in a way that's different than yours. Either you deal with it, be professional, or you look for a different job that fits your beliefs.

 

IMHO...

Edited January 18, 2018 by -Trinity-

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, IDWAF said:

If you feel this way, then why can’t the nurse refuse to care for the post-op abortion patient?

You did not absorb the part , in which I said it may make him unemployable or have no patients.  IE if he takes a job at a place he needs to follow their policy. If he is the owner of his own business then his patients can decide. 

 

As for the nurses, they were guaranteed the right to not have to provide abortion care as part of their job. They changed that policy.  They should be grandfathered in or moved. New hires should follow current policy. 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

4 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Why do you think there is no meat on it?

cause there is nothing the HHS can do about it. 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

4 minutes ago, -Trinity- said:

And that brings us back to the nurse who refuses to provide aftercare. I personally think that's wrong. When you provide services you know that there will be people who live their lives in a way that's different than yours. Either you deal with it, be professional, or you look for a different job that fits your beliefs.

 

IMHO...

and I agree 100%. and for the record it was 12 nurses. 

 

However they were told when hired and it had been the policy for sometime, that they would not have to provide abortion care of any kind.  They changed the policy. Grandfather them in, move them, but in the future if you go to work  there you know the deal.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

5 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

You did not absorb the part , in which I said it may make him unemployable or have no patients.  IE if he takes a job at a place he needs to follow their policy. If he is the owner of his own business then his patients can decide. 

 

As for the nurses, they were guaranteed the right to not have to provide abortion care as part of their job. They changed that policy.  They should be grandfathered in or moved. New hires should follow current policy. 

So there is no difference.  Either they provide the care, or they find another job.  Same as the doctor.

 

If the policy changed after they were already hired, then they had the chance to leave after the policy change.  There are SO MANY things nurses can do besides abortion care.  I find it hard to belive any clinic in the US (well, except for an abortion clinic, which a conscientious objector should not be working at anyway) doesn’t have enough tasks to keep their nurses busy doing that doesn’t involve an abortion.  Might change shift-by-shift, but if nurse A is opposed, let nurse B handle it.  Simple solution.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

So there is no difference.  Either they provide the care, or they find another job.  Same as the doctor.

 

If the policy changed after they were already hired, then they had the chance to leave after the policy change.  There are SO MANY things nurses can do besides abortion care.  I find it hard to belive any clinic in the US (well, except for an abortion clinic, which a conscientious objector should not be working at anyway) doesn’t have enough tasks to keep their nurses busy doing that doesn’t involve an abortion.  Might change shift-by-shift, but if nurse A is opposed, let nurse B handle it.  Simple solution.

and dat is what I been saying, with the caveat being, moving forward new hires will observe the new policy 

 

You know buddy. Its hard traveling the desolate lonely middle of the road all by myself 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Nature Boy Flair