****hole Immigrants

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

8 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

your words:

"We don't know what past Presidents and Senators said in private meetings.

Politicians used to have dignity back then and did not disclose conversations held in private meetings."

 

didn't realize when you said 'past presidents and senators' and 'politicians' you were referring to jfk and reagan. 

 

further, if we can't know - this works both ways. if i can't know racist things were said behind closed doors - you can't know they weren't.

 

we do know that racist ideals have been prominent in american history. this is fact. only makes sense that historically many american politicians, especially during more segregated/historically racist eras, held some racist ideals themselves.

 

i believe your point was, back then they had the dignity not to rat each other out? did i misunderstand you?

 

 

I mentioned JFK and Reagan to make two examples (both parties) of two Presidents widely respected and with great accomplishments.

And no, I don't assume anything. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

And yes, ratting out private conversations (at any level) is a great sign of low character to me.

I found America to be much less racist than most European countries (including my own country). What are the racist ideals you refer to? Segregation? That's long over. Don't forget that people in Europe were literally exterminating each other no later than 73 years ago.

[smilesammich 10,727]

8 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

I mentioned JFK and Reagan to make two examples (both parties) of two Presidents widely respected and with great accomplishments.

And no, I don't assume anything. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

And yes, ratting out private conversations (at any level) is a great sign of low character to me.

I found America to be much less racist than most European countries (including my own country). What are the racist ideals you refer to? Segregation? That's long over. Don't forget that people in Europe were literally exterminating each other no later than 73 years ago.

well, you've had a lovely experience in america then. good for you.

i'm not going to argue the prevalence of racism in america, i think its absolutely absurd to suggest that racist ideals in this country are 'long over' and i have no interest in attempting to comparison gauge america with europe. "don't forget" that the last recorded lynching in america took place in 1981. and i've had kkk recruitment flyers left in my driveway twice in the past six months. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by smilesammich

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

2 hours ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

True. He said those words (if he said those words) in a private meeting.

Political opponents took them public (if not outright lied, we will never know) for their own interest.

This is why I hate career politicians, on both sides.

I want someone who speaks frankly, whether I agree with him/her or not.

You are conflating speaking frankly with a lack of respect, decorum, dignity, critical thinking and respect for our country and its institutions.  You can Talk Straight and honest without using offensive hyperbole that demeans the speaker, the audience and the target of insult.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

57 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

i'll ring oprah up and let her know you said ease up.

 

did i say white people weren't a part of mlk's movement? no, i didn't. we were talking about closeted racism back in the day, as in, those in power (old white men) spoke freely among their peers (wink wink).

No they spoke freely in public and everything was segregated.  You never witnessed real racism in action I did. Now most of the people I meet that are overtly racist are non white 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

17 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

I mentioned JFK and Reagan to make two examples (both parties) of two Presidents widely respected and with great accomplishments.

And no, I don't assume anything. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

And yes, ratting out private conversations (at any level) is a great sign of low character to me.

I found America to be much less racist than most European countries (including my own country). What are the racist ideals you refer to? Segregation? That's long over. Don't forget that people in Europe were literally exterminating each other no later than 73 years ago.

I would prefer we didn't aspire the be the worst we can be.

Just now, Nature Boy Flair said:

No they spoke freely in public and everything was segregated.  You never witnessed real racism in action I did. Now most of the people I meet that are overtly racist are non white 

...says a white man to a person of color

[Boiler 45,511]

Just now, Nature Boy Flair said:

 You never witnessed real racism in action I did. Now most of the people I meet that are overtly racist are non white 

Pretty sure that in MDL land that is not possible.

[-Trinity- 513]

11 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

and i've had kkk recruitment flyers left in my driveway twice in the past six months. 

That's pretty messed up.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

8 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

well, you've had a lovely experience in america then. good for you.

i'm not going to argue the prevalence of racism in america, i think its absolutely absurd to suggest that racist ideals in this country are 'long over' and i have no interest in attempting to comparison gauge america with europe. "don't forget" that the last recorded lynching in america took place in 1981. and i've had kkk recruitment flyers left in my driveway twice in the past six months. 

I'm not saying America is racism-free. We all know that's not the case. Is Canada racism-free? I highly doubt it.

I was born and raised in Italy and I lived in the UK, Russia, and Japan.

I can tell you that Italy, UK and Russia are generally more racist than the US. Japan is a different story, they have their own way (extremely polite, of course) to make you feel not good enough if you're white (and most of my fellow expats agreed on this when I was there).

[smilesammich 10,727]

 

1 minute ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

No they spoke freely in public and everything was segregated.  You never witnessed real racism in action I did. Now most of the people I meet that are overtly racist are non white 

politicians have never spoke freely in public. that's the whole reason trump supporters love him. they think he says whatever runs across his tiny shuttered mind. i don't agree with this, mind you. i think if trump truly spoke his mind we wouldn't be questioning his elite racist leanings at all.

you witnessed racism from a certain time that i wasn't alive for, true. but that doesn't mean i've not witnessed racism. the whole question of racism being real or not is only a question in your mind, not mine.

and ain't that something, all the people i meet that are overtly racist are white. but we've had this convo before. it will go nowhere.

[smilesammich 10,727]

4 minutes ago, -Trinity- said:

That's pretty messed up.

yes. first batch was on halloween. flyer in a sandwich bag of rice, lest they fly away. and wouldn't you know the flyer spoke of foreigners coming to the us to overtake whitey? we've got to stick together 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

4 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

I'm not saying America is racism-free. We all know that's not the case. Is Canada racism-free? I highly doubt it.

I was born and raised in Italy and I lived in the UK, Russia, and Japan.

I can tell you that Italy, UK and Russia are generally more racist than the US. Japan is a different story, they have their own way (extremely polite, of course) to make you feel not good enough if you're white (and most of my fellow expats agreed on this when I was there).

Who cares how we fit on a bell shape curve, what I care about is our values, our leadership and what we are teaching our children.  The President gets an F for reflecting what is important to me. 

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

7 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

You are conflating speaking frankly with a lack of respect, decorum, dignity, critical thinking and respect for our country and its institutions.  You can Talk Straight and honest without using offensive hyperbole that demeans the speaker, the audience and the target of insult.

So you never cursed before?

This was supposed to be a private conversation.

Would you live in Haiti if you had the opportunity? Do you think it's a well-functioning country? I don't even know how many billions of dollars were thrown there and nothing improved. It actually got worse. The victims are Haitians people, but where did the money go? No wonder the Haitian ambassador got offended, he was probably personally involved.

[yuna628 9,676]

12 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

well, you've had a lovely experience in america then. good for you.

i'm not going to argue the prevalence of racism in america, i think its absolutely absurd to suggest that racist ideals in this country are 'long over' and i have no interest in attempting to comparison gauge america with europe. "don't forget" that the last recorded lynching in america took place in 1981. and i've had kkk recruitment flyers left in my driveway twice in the past six months. 

And that's just lynchings.... can't forget the 1998 brutal murder of James Byrd and so many others.

 

KKK is everywhere here... it's common to find flyers left. We get them in the city too... back in the day they'd enjoy driving around with swastikas painted on their trucks out in the open.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

No they spoke freely in public and everything was segregated.  You never witnessed real racism in action I did. Now most of the people I meet that are overtly racist are non white 

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

1 minute ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Who cares how we fit on a bell shape curve, what I care about is our values, our leadership and what we are teaching our children.  The President gets an F for reflecting what is important to me. 

Great, do not vote for him then, who cares about your grades?

What are 'our values'? We all come from different backgrounds and have different cultures, and that's great. We should respect the Constitution (if we live here) and federal, state, and local laws.

Then our "values" are subjective.

[smilesammich 10,727]

6 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

I'm not saying America is racism-free. We all know that's not the case. Is Canada racism-free? I highly doubt it.

I was born and raised in Italy and I lived in the UK, Russia, and Japan.

I can tell you that Italy, UK and Russia are generally more racist than the US. Japan is a different story, they have their own way (extremely polite, of course) to make you feel not good enough if you're white (and most of my fellow expats agreed on this when I was there).

well then, makes sense that some of our former presidents/senators were racist and more than likely said racist things behind closed doors.

i honestly have no idea why you're talking about racism in other countries.