Starting Jan. 22, some may need a passport for domestic air travel

[yuna628 9,676]

4 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Because requiring people to show identification  targets minorities and is an attempt to disenfranchise people of color , by the man 

*sigh* I'm pretty sure we've been over this one before a lot. And I've pointed out to an interesting solution that was floated around long ago, but one that conservatives freaked out about and ran away from... so we just never did it. Now we're reaching the point where it's a problem.

2 hours ago, jg121783 said:

It's funny. There are laws requiring id for tobacco and alcohol but no one calls that racist. However if you want to check id before people vote you are a grand dragon.

Drinking alcohol and killing yourself with tobacco aren't constitutionally protected rights.

2 hours ago, -Trinity- said:

I'm not that old yet

 

I've heard this irl, but haven't come across someone who really feels discriminated for that reason. As far as I know you need an ID for basically everything. 

 

Profiling is a different matter though.

It happens. And I've pointed out many scenarios on here before. Why does it happen? Because of state red tape (via multiple agencies) and circular laws that allow for big time headaches. It can happen to the elderly especially, minorities that are poor, housewives that never drove, and the young who have come out of religious sects having a complete lack of any documentation. I've been through it three times before with my own family. It was easier to get my husband identification than my own mother!

1 hour ago, spookyturtle said:

And if every voter in the state or country had to show an ID, it wouldn't be racist, would it? 

Exactly. So when will we create a federal ID card for everyone and be done with it?

[-Trinity- 513]

3 hours ago, eieio said:

Oh man…..you are not a good liberal. A good liberal will go on and on that voter id is racist, sexist, agist etc.. 

Ehm..who says I'm a liberal?

[-Trinity- 513]

2 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

I'm not allowed to vote.

[eieio 1,594]

1 hour ago, -Trinity- said:

Ehm..who says I'm a liberal?

Good point!  Its a mental disorder and the cure is elusive.

[-Trinity- 513]

19 minutes ago, eieio said:

Good point!  Its a mental disorder and the cure is elusive.

I don't think any psychiatrist will agree, but if that's what you want to believe..then that's what you believe.

[-Trinity- 513]

4 hours ago, IDWAF said:

I agree with you.  Never seen it in my life.  If it does exist, it’s probably very rare.  

 

Makes you wonder how those who cry that it’s discriminatory to require them to have an ID to vote do all the things in life that requires an ID?  Alcohol, cigs, vehicles, marriage, etc.  I realize not everyone owns a car, but those other things are pretty common, I reckon.  

 

Oh well...

Even at my kids school I have to show an ID when I go inside the building during school hours.

I don't know any better then everyone ( from a certain age) is required to carry an ID , not just in the US btw.

 

So, I truly don't understand the whole race thing.

[-Trinity- 513]

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

 

It happens. And I've pointed out many scenarios on here before. Why does it happen? Because of state red tape (via multiple agencies) and circular laws that allow for big time headaches. It can happen to the elderly especially, minorities that are poor, housewives that never drove, and the young who have come out of religious sects having a complete lack of any documentation. I've been through it three times before with my own family. It was easier to get my husband identification than my own mother!

I'm not gonna ask you to repeat those scenarios, and I'm not that long enough on CEHST to know them either. So perhaps we are talking about two different things. I know profiling is a thing ( not just in the US) but I don't see why requiring people to carry an ID is racist.I know that the lack of a birth certificate for example can cause a lot of headache when someone is trying to get legal documents done.Both my parents have faced this problem, but I have never considered this to be racist. My dad had to go back and forth to Morocco to get the paperwork done. 

 

And I had to jump through many hoops myself because I wasn't born in the Netherlands, but I consider this to be rather an inconvenience and pain in the &$#@,  then based on my race.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by -Trinity-

[eieio 1,594]

7 hours ago, -Trinity- said:

I'm not gonna ask you to repeat those scenarios, and I'm not that long enough on CEHST to know them either. So perhaps we are talking about two different things. I know profiling is a thing ( not just in the US) but I don't see why requiring people to carry an ID is racist.I know that the lack of a birth certificate for example can cause a lot of headache when someone is trying to get legal documents done.Both my parents have faced this problem, but I have never considered this to be racist. My dad had to go back and forth to Morocco to get the paperwork done. 

 

And I had to jump through many hoops myself because I wasn't born in the Netherlands, but I consider this to be rather an inconvenience and pain in the &$#@,  then based on my race.

 

 

You are exactly right. Needing to show ID to vote is not racist.  The only thing racist about the topic of voter ID is when people try and claim minorities are somehow to dumb to get an ID to vote. 

[Keith & Arileidi 437]

I think it mainly targets the poor. 

Which is still pretty bad.. 

The price of my passport was about $200 that's on top of the price of plane tickets.. ouch. 

[yuna628 9,676]

8 hours ago, -Trinity- said:

I'm not gonna ask you to repeat those scenarios, and I'm not that long enough on CEHST to know them either. So perhaps we are talking about two different things. I know profiling is a thing ( not just in the US) but I don't see why requiring people to carry an ID is racist.I know that the lack of a birth certificate for example can cause a lot of headache when someone is trying to get legal documents done.Both my parents have faced this problem, but I have never considered this to be racist. My dad had to go back and forth to Morocco to get the paperwork done. 

 

And I had to jump through many hoops myself because I wasn't born in the Netherlands, but I consider this to be rather an inconvenience and pain in the &$#@,  then based on my race.

 

 

The courts have ruled on the profiling matter regarding IDs in a few states. If the intent was to disenfranchise and make things intentionally complex for certain groups of persons rather than others, then those states have big problems. When it comes to voting, anything that prohibits the ability of a citizen to vote, becomes a slippery slope.

 

The problem in many states, including my own - is how does one obtain an ID and what does state regulation say you need to get one? Typically it's going to require a birth certificate and an SSN, and maybe a few other items as well. But what happens if you don't have either? Go get a passport some say. What happens if you don't have that? And what are the requirements to obtain most of those items to begin with? There's the circular law again. You cannot obtain an ID without a birth certificate. You cannot obtain a birth certificate without ID.

 

When you cannot obtain a birth certificate you must have other documents. What happens if you don't have those (never issued them or lost in a fire)? And even if you do have those, you will be required to wait for weeks. That's just what happens here, and not too long ago we didn't even have that provision either. Even if the intent behind requiring an ID is not meant to be of malice, for some it does make things complex, and for others completely prohibitive. The elderly is still a very large voting bloc in this country, and it is often those (of any race) which are the most vulnerable to such laws. If my father for instance, ever stopped driving, he would have the same issue that my mom did. My grandma, as a housewife, did not have an ID. She simply didn't need one back then - she relied to a large degree on her husband's ID (which he certainly had well before any of new regulations and he did not have a birth certificate either being born in 1916.. my other grandma like my dad were born at home and also had no certificates).. pretty much the same as my mom and dad. People born in the old days don't have birth certificates. My mom and dad didn't have one. My sister didn't have one, neither did I. Birth documents issued then don't count the same as a birth certificate and are refused as evidence. Many persons become stuck in the system of red tape. Some elderly have no one to assist them, or are simply too poor (it is doubtful they'd be flying either).

 

The solution should be to simply issue everyone an ID no matter whom they are, their race, or income status. If we all have something equally, then there can be no claim of discrimination. And that idea has been floated before. Conservatives suffered major pushback from groups that were fundamentally opposed on every level. Only 27 states are compliant with the DHS regulation mentioned in this thread. So let's ask why? They are both red and blue states who have fought the measure. REAL ID was fought strongly by conservative groups in the past, and it will likely continue. Many on both sides, remain convinced it is a flawed law.

[-Trinity- 513]

1 hour ago, eieio said:

You are exactly right. Needing to show ID to vote is not racist.  The only thing racist about the topic of voter ID is when people try and claim minorities are somehow to dumb to get an ID to vote. 

I have to agree with this.

[-Trinity- 513]

1 hour ago, Keith & Arileidi said:

I think it mainly targets the poor. 

Which is still pretty bad.. 

The price of my passport was about $200 that's on top of the price of plane tickets.. ouch. 

I think the cost of living in America is extremely high. I still don't understand how poor people survive. I think traveling is a totally different ball game for them when main concern is getting food on the table.

[charmander 692]

I don't think ID laws are racist but some idiot using his/her judgement whom to ask ID  based on how someone looks or sounds is racist. As long as everyone is treated equally, I'm fine.

 

FYI... it's true passports are little expensive at $135 for first-time applicants, but if you don't fly internationally at all, passport cards are much cheaper at $55 and they are RealID compliant.

[-Trinity- 513]

6 minutes ago, charmander said:

I don't think ID laws are racist but some idiot using his/her judgement whom to ask ID  based on how someone looks or sounds is racist. As long as everyone is treated equally, I'm fine.

 

Exactly, it's the profiling that I kinda think is disturbing. Not sure if it happens in America, but in the Netherlands it does happen. People ( males to be exact) with a certain background will be asked for their IDs more often then the native Dutch. That's a slippery slope. Required to have an ID isn't imho.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, Keith & Arileidi said:

I think it mainly targets the poor. 

Which is still pretty bad.. 

The price of my passport was about $200 that's on top of the price of plane tickets.. ouch. 

 

  Historically that has happened here. Poll taxes, literacy tests, property restrictions. You name it. The main impetus for the voting rights act in 1965 was to prevent state and local governments from preventing minorities from voting. A few here like to pretend none of this ever happened. It did and it still does.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Steeleballz