Visiting US bf from Finland B2?

[Helsinki 0]

Hi everyone and Happy New Year!

I'm new here so please try to be kind to me(or not). This is a long post so I apologize in advance.

 

So this is the situation. I have an american bf and I am a finnish citizen.(As you can probably tell already but anyway) we don't wanna get married or have children so getting pregnant or being engaged is not an option but we still wanna be together obviously.

I've been in US last year for 9 days in june, 3 weeks in August and in October i was there for 80 days.

I have ESTA but we hate being away from each other so he thought I could apply B2 visa so I  could be there more than 90 days.

He is planning moving to Finland but he can not do that for months yet so I would have to visit if we want to see each other and we really do!

I was working before but now I'm currently unemployed(my own choice.). I get some income every month though and I have savings since I've been working pretty much my whole life. 

I've been reading these forums and I didn't know that if they deny my B2 visa, they could cancel my ESTA as well and we really don't want that to happen.

They asked a lot of questions at the airport last time and I was prepared for that ofc. They let me in after 3hours and we were super grateful! 

In late feb/early march I could travel to america again since I need to stay away for at least 80 days but I think it would me much more safe to go in april in may?

But since this would be my 4rd time and I would stay 90 days now I am afraid that they would think I wanna move there or search work etc but I really don't since our plan is to live in Finland  together as soon as my bf can leave from there.

 

So is it dumb for me to apply for B2visa? And if it is when would be safe to travel there again with ESTA?

 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Helsinki

[payxibka 10,047]

The negative as you indicate is the frequency, the good news is that you have shown a good record of honoring the conditions and have left each time.  Nothing is ever  guaranteed at the port even if you showed up with a B2 visa.

[JFH 12,191]

It is unusual for VWP-eligible people to be granted B-2 visas. Not impossible, but not common. Retired people are usually more successful. Are you of retirement age? 

 

You need to think of it the way the CO will see it at the embassy, it's not about what you want. In their opinion, 90 days of visa-free travel is more than sufficient. Take a look at these forums and you'll see many people who are married to USCs who spend years only being able to see each other for a few weeks (at most) a time, myself included. We survived. No one yet has died from being apart from their boyfriend so why do you need longer than you've already got? And even if you were to be granted a B-2 visa, there's no guarantee you will be able to stay for 6 months. It could completely backfire at the border and the CBP agent may only grant you a week or two. In that case you'd be better off with 90 days on the VWP. Be careful what you wish for!

 

Ultimately it's your risk and your money. So you'll do what you want anyway. But the CO is likely to think "well if everyone else from Finland and other VWP countries can survive with 90 days max per stay then so can you". You might want your read the thread on the front page from a U.K. applicant who applied for a B-2 to see his girlfriend and was denied. So he now has no VWP privilege and no B-2. 

 

Enjoy your 90-day stays. It's more than most have. He can also visit you. 

[Helsinki 0]

Thanks so much for the responses!

 

I know it's never guaranteed if u have ESTA/visa. I am just wondering when it would be safe to travel again. I am aware that they can say to get back where you came from..

'I understand your point and I am not trying to put myself higher than others just because of my nationality. I am sorry if I gave that kind of impression, really didn't mean to. I was just wondering does it matter where you are from when entering again to the US.

And yes I understand that everyone else have been suffered before getting married etc as well as us ofc.  But the thing is we are never gonna get married or have children, we are just not that kind of people you know? So we are aware that this is gonna be difficult because of that but I am wondering when I could travel again.

 

 

And no unfortunately he can't visit me.

[JFH 12,191]

5 minutes ago, Helsinki said:

Thanks so much for the responses!

 

I know it's never guaranteed if u have ESTA/visa. I am just wondering when it would be safe to travel again. I am aware that they can say to get back where you came from..

'I understand your point and I am not trying to put myself higher than others just because of my nationality. I am sorry if I gave that kind of impression, really didn't mean to. I was just wondering does it matter where you are from when entering again to the US.

And yes I understand that everyone else have been suffered before getting married etc as well as us ofc.  But the thing is we are never gonna get married or have children, we are just not that kind of people you know? So we are aware that this is gonna be difficult because of that but I am wondering when I could travel again.

 

 

And no unfortunately he can't visit me.

There is no set time limit on when it is "safe" to visit again or not. It's all at the discretion of the individual officer on the day. I visited my husband over 40 times in the 4.5 years before I immigrated. Some visits were less than 6 weeks apart but no visit was more than 2 weeks. I'm British so I had the VWP at my disposal. It's a huge privilege and one that I was very grateful to have. 

 

Unfortunately for you, the US government is not interested in or concerned with your lifestyle choices for your relationship. There are no visas for "don't-want-to-marry" situations. It's one extreme or the other with US immigration - you visit, or you live here. And to live here with a USC love interest you have to get married. Call it old-fashioned, call it crazy... call it what you want but that's just the way it is and we just have to deal with it. At 40 and 48 (the ages we were when we got married) my husband and I had no desire to have children and didn't really think marriage was necessary to us, having both been married before. However, in order to live together we have to be married. So we got married. And I'm very pleased we did.

 

Can he visit you in another country? My husband has a lifetime ban from the U.K. and is limited to where he can travel due to his criminal record. That's why the VWP was so important to me and I would never have risked anything that could cause it to be removed from me. 

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

2 hours ago, JFH said:

 And even if you were to be granted a B-2 visa, there's no guarantee you will be able to stay for 6 months. It could completely backfire at the border and the CBP agent may only grant you a week or two. In that case you'd be better off with 90 days on the VWP. Be careful what you wish for!

. 

This is is a good point. I had a 10-year multiple entry B visa before I immigrated. Some of the stays I was granted were for 6 months, but not all of them. 

 

 

2 hours ago, JFH said:

 

 

Unfortunately for you, the US government is not interested in or concerned with your lifestyle choices for your relationship. There are no visas for "don't-want-to-marry" situations. It's one extreme or the other with US immigration - you visit, or you live here. And to live here with a USC love interest you have to get married. Call it old-fashioned, call it crazy... call it what you want but that's just the way it is and we just have to deal with it. At 40 and 48 (the ages we were when we got married) my husband and I had no desire to have children and didn't really think marriage was necessary to us, having both been married before. However, in order to live together we have to be married. So we got married. And I'm very pleased we did.

Indeed, unfortunately when international relocation  is involved - whether a family moving countries or people from different countries wanting to live together - sometimes marriage is what has to happen. I know two couples - from different countries - both couples had already been together for years, owned property and had children together, and still had to get married to be able to in one case, emigrate together as a family  (to the UK) and in another, live for a few years in the US on a work visa. And of course people like you who have to get married to get an immigrant visa to be with who you want, where you want. 

 

OP, you say your boyfriend plans to move to Finland in due course, I assume you have looked into how to do this considering he is not from an EU country and you don’t want to get married. I know some countries allow visas for common-law spouses, but I don’t know if Finland is one of those and anyway those generally require proof of having lived together for a certain amount of time, which you wouldn’t be able to show. I’m just curious I guess, can he get a work visa, or how do you plan to do this?

Edited January 1, 2018 by SusieQQQ

[geowrian 22,338]

9 hours ago, Helsinki said:

I've been reading these forums and I didn't know that if they deny my B2 visa, they could cancel my ESTA as well and we really don't want that to happen.

This is true. Your existing ESTA will need to be updated, and a recently refused visa is very, very likely to result in the ESTA being denied as well (since the reason for a visa refusal would also apply for an ESTA).

 

What you do is up to you, but know that you're risking a chance for a longer visit versus visiting the US at all.

Getting a B-2 doesn't clear your travel history, so staying too long or too often in the US would still be an issue.

The general rule of thumb is to spend at least as long outside the US as in it, with twice as long being preferred. There is no fixed amount of time as it is at the discretion of the officer. They will look at the totality of the circumstances.

[Boiler 45,932]

10 hours ago, Helsinki said:

 

So is it dumb for me to apply for B2visa?

 

And if it is when would be safe to travel there again with ESTA?

 

Yes

 

Difficult to say, well easy to say when it is clearly not going to be an issue but harder the more you push it. Too many variables.

[Helsinki 0]

15 hours ago, JFH said:

There is no set time limit on when it is "safe" to visit again or not. It's all at the discretion of the individual officer on the day. I visited my husband over 40 times in the 4.5 years before I immigrated. Some visits were less than 6 weeks apart but no visit was more than 2 weeks. I'm British so I had the VWP at my disposal. It's a huge privilege and one that I was very grateful to have. 

 

Unfortunately for you, the US government is not interested in or concerned with your lifestyle choices for your relationship. There are no visas for "don't-want-to-marry" situations. It's one extreme or the other with US immigration - you visit, or you live here. And to live here with a USC love interest you have to get married. Call it old-fashioned, call it crazy... call it what you want but that's just the way it is and we just have to deal with it. At 40 and 48 (the ages we were when we got married) my husband and I had no desire to have children and didn't really think marriage was necessary to us, having both been married before. However, in order to live together we have to be married. So we got married. And I'm very pleased we did.

 

Can he visit you in another country? My husband has a lifetime ban from the U.K. and is limited to where he can travel due to his criminal record. That's why the VWP was so important to me and I would never have risked anything that could cause it to be removed from me. 

I kinda get it that you have to get married if you wanted to live in the US but we don't. Ofc that's not the goverment's problem it's ours. We are just trying to find options but it's getting pretty clear to me that there is only one. I am really grateful about the VWP as well don't get me wrong.

No he can't visit me. He has to stay in the US in order to move here(hopefully) next fall because of his businesses.

 

13 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

OP, you say your boyfriend plans to move to Finland in due course, I assume you have looked into how to do this considering he is not from an EU country and you don’t want to get married. I know some countries allow visas for common-law spouses, but I don’t know if Finland is one of those and anyway those generally require proof of having lived together for a certain amount of time, which you wouldn’t be able to show. I’m just curious I guess, can he get a work visa, or how do you plan to do this?

He is applying for a residence permit for an employed person. He has income and his own business so we really hope that since he is not coming here to take advantage of our free social security system they would allow him to enter.

 

9 hours ago, geowrian said:

This is true. Your existing ESTA will need to be updated, and a recently refused visa is very, very likely to result in the ESTA being denied as well (since the reason for a visa refusal would also apply for an ESTA).

 

What you do is up to you, but know that you're risking a chance for a longer visit versus visiting the US at all.

Getting a B-2 doesn't clear your travel history, so staying too long or too often in the US would still be an issue.

The general rule of thumb is to spend at least as long outside the US as in it, with twice as long being preferred. There is no fixed amount of time as it is at the discretion of the officer. They will look at the totality of the circumstances.

He thought you have to be away for that amount that you were in, like that would be enough. My bf said there are no official rules but somehow I knew this wouldn't be that easy. The officer was very suspicious last time when I said I'm gonna be there for so long and I get it. But I just told him the truth and hoped for the best.

 

8 hours ago, Boiler said:

Yes

 

Difficult to say, well easy to say when it is clearly not going to be an issue but harder the more you push it. Too many variables.

Yeah I get it, anything can happen and it's up to the officer.

[Helsinki 0]

20 hours ago, payxibka said:

The negative as you indicate is the frequency, the good news is that you have shown a good record of honoring the conditions and have left each time.  Nothing is ever  guaranteed at the port even if you showed up with a B2 visa.

Ofc I honor the conditions since we don't wanna risk anything. :/

[jkstark 97]

One recommendation...  Don't plan to stay 90 days on an ESTA since that is the max limit, and weird things can happen that may cause you to overstay by accident - ie. a flight cancellation, bad weather, whatever.  Instead, plan on a max of about 81-82 days so that you have a little bit of a buffer there...  An overstay, intentional or not, will get you barred from ESTA, and potentially an entry ban for some time...

[az2014 381]

3 hours ago, jkstark said:

One recommendation...  Don't plan to stay 90 days on an ESTA since that is the max limit, and weird things can happen that may cause you to overstay by accident - ie. a flight cancellation, bad weather, whatever.  Instead, plan on a max of about 81-82 days so that you have a little bit of a buffer there...  An overstay, intentional or not, will get you barred from ESTA, and potentially an entry ban for some time...

Why would you bump a 2+ month old thread where the OP has not even been on the site in over 2 months?

[JayJayH 546]

On 1/2/2018 at 1:24 AM, Helsinki said:

He is applying for a residence permit for an employed person. He has income and his own business so we really hope that since he is not coming here to take advantage of our free social security system they would allow him to enter.

 

He thought you have to be away for that amount that you were in, like that would be enough. My bf said there are no official rules but somehow I knew this wouldn't be that easy. The officer was very suspicious last time when I said I'm gonna be there for so long and I get it. But I just told him the truth and hoped for the best.

If it was me I would probably wait with the B-2 until your bf actually submits an application for a Finnish residence permit. Reason is simple - showing that he is planning to move there is good evidence that you're not trying to stay here. If you have a copy of his submitted application, it's an extra piece of evidence for you. They might not ask for it, but it's a good thing to have.

There are no rules for how long you have to stay out of the country. In theory, you can stay for 90 days, leave for a week and come back for another 90 days. As long as you plan to leave within those 90 days and don't work/study, you're considered a tourist, and as long as you're a tourist, you're allowed to stay for up to 90 days at a time. It differs from European rules in that Schengen countries generally only let you stay for up to 180 days in a given year, up to 90 days at a time. The U.S. lets you stay for however long as long as you're a tourist.

 

That's why it's easy for a lot of retired Europeans to travel in and out frequently if they own a vacation home in i.e. Florida and receive pensions from Europe - There is little concern they plan to marry an American and stay, and there is little concern they're going to run out of money and/or work illegally. For young, unmarried travelers, both of those are concerns.

 

This is grounded in section 214(b) of the immigration act, which, also requires a CBP officer or Consular officer to 1. assume that you want to immigrate, and 2. turn you away if they're not convinced you're a tourist. In other words, you're considered guilty until they are satisfied otherwise. One of the things that's hard for you to satisfy them of is that you're intending to leave within 90 days - As opposed to marrying your boyfriend and adjusting status.

 

You have a good track record, and I'd be surprised if they turn you away for another ESTA entry. The B-2 route in my opinion is riskier, at least until you have some sort of evidence that he is applying to move to Finland.

Edited March 15, 2018 by JayJayH