IRS warns only some can benefit from filing property taxes early ahead of new law

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

10 hours ago, IDWAF said:

Double taxed?  Are you serious, or just trying to get a rise out of folks?

 

I pay taxes on all my income at the federal level. Then I pay state, city, and county taxes with that already taxed money for just about everything I buy.  Vehicle registration, sales tax, etc.  I pay federal taxes on my cell phone bill.  And don’t get me started on the racket that surrounds selling a used car and having to pay taxes on it again and again and again.

 

Federal and state/county/local taxes are different one from another.  

 

In your example, they are not “paying taxes with money that has already been taxed”.  They are just paying the additional amount of taxes they owe that weren’t deducted throughout the year.

Do you itemize? If so the income, sales, property and car tabs are are deductions.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

Just now, Il Mango Dulce said:

Do you itemize? If so the income, sales, property and car tabs are are deductions.

Not necessarily with a real tax benefit (especially in high-tax states) because of the AMT.

Either way, the standard deduction - not subject to the AMT - is nearly doubled, so most of these people are going to be better off, getting a larger deduction this year (if not in the AMT) and a larger deduction next year (increased standard deduction AND lower tax rates).

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

6 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

Not necessarily with a real tax benefit (especially in high-tax states) because of the AMT.

Either way, the standard deduction - not subject to the AMT - is nearly doubled, so most of these people are going to be better off, getting a larger deduction this year (if not in the AMT) and a larger deduction next year (increased standard deduction AND lower tax rates).

Yeah...you brought up the AMT about 10 gazzilion times. For the 95 % of folks not affected by the AMT, they get to deduct said items. Additionally I will taking and itemized deduction for 2017 and 2018 so the standard deduction does not help me.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Il Mango Dulce

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

6 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Yeah...you brought up the AMT about 10 gazzilion times. For the 95 % of folks not affected by the AMT, they get to deduct said items. Additionally I will taking and itemized deduction for 2017 and 2018 so the standard deduction does not help me.

95% of folks not affected by the AMT?!?!

What are you talking about?

Almost everyone with a large SALT deduction is affected by the AMT.

Most of the people getting a real benefit by prepaying are either the ultra-wealthy (they are above AMT rates) or lower-income people who would not normally itemize and certainly would not itemize in 2018 with a huge standard deduction.

Another example of the biased (and this time I'd add uneducated) media washing brains.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

13 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Yeah...you brought up the AMT about 10 gazzilion times. For the 95 % of folks not affected by the AMT, they get to deduct said items. Additionally I will taking and itemized deduction for 2017 and 2018 so the standard deduction does not help me.

You are implying that 95% of taxpayers who itemize are not in the AMT?

Get your facts straight.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

15 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Yeah...you brought up the AMT about 10 gazzilion times. For the 95 % of folks not affected by the AMT, they get to deduct said items. Additionally I will taking and itemized deduction for 2017 and 2018 so the standard deduction does not help me.

https://taxfoundation.org/taxpayers-subject-alternative-minimum-tax/

 

Some basic tax education for you.

You're welcome.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

15 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

https://taxfoundation.org/taxpayers-subject-alternative-minimum-tax/

 

Some basic tax education for you.

You're welcome.

 

17 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

You are implying that 95% of taxpayers who itemize are not in the AMT?

Get your facts straight.

I am implying what I said "folks". Now you are adding qualifiers I never mentioned. Get your own facts straight.

 

 

I have never seen good tax advice on this site.

 

And seeing how you are gunho on the tax bill. Why did Trump not keep his promises to eliminate it? Even Hillary ran on bumping the limit to 1million.

  

 

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Il Mango Dulce

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

28 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

 

I am implying what I said "folks". Now you are adding qualifiers I never mentioned. Get your own facts straight.

 

 

I have never seen good tax advice on this site.

 

And seeing how you are gunho on the tax bill. Why did Trump not keep his promises to eliminate it? Even Hillary ran on bumping the limit to 1million.

  

 

 

First of all, I'm just pointing out that you like to preach on the tax bill and you know nothing about tax.

You've never seen good tax advice in this site? Why would you? No one is here to give free tax advice. You should go to a professional. A tip: a good professional well versed in international tax charges no less than $350-$400/hr.

 

As far as the bill, it's far from perfect. Unfortunately, the Senate needs 60 votes to pass legislation without any budgetary limitation. Since no one Dem wanted to vote for it, some cuts are temporary and the individual AMT had to stay (although it will affect not nearly as many people as today).

And FYI Hillary wanted to implement an additional AMT (the so-called Buffet rule), which would have taxed at least 30% incomes of at least $1m (regardless of the type of income). So absurd that someone investing in 'tax-free' muni bonds would have that income taxed at 30%.

[charmander 692]

37 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

You are implying that 95% of taxpayers who itemize are not in the AMT?

Get your facts straight.

 

Ok let me help you guys with that. 2016 statistics are not available but according to the 2015 IRS stats; that number was ~90%. 44.5 million returns took itemized deductions. 4.3 millions paid AMT. 

 

Couple more stats from 2015; total number of returns were 150 millions and total number of AMTs were 4.47 millions. AMT starts hurting at 28% bracket but significantly at 33 -35% brackets. Surprisingly more than 80% of the super rich (39.6% bracket) did not pay AMT. 1.03 million returns were under 39.6% bracket, only 195 thousands paid AMT.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

7 minutes ago, charmander said:

 

Ok let me help you guys with that. 2016 statistics are not available but according to the 2015 IRS stats; that number was ~90%. 44.5 million returns took itemized deductions. 4.3 millions paid AMT. 

 

Couple more stats from 2015; total number of returns were 150 millions and total number of AMTs were 4.47 millions. AMT starts hurting at 28% bracket but significantly at 33 -35% brackets. Surprisingly more than 80% of the super rich (39.6% bracket) did not pay AMT. 1.03 million returns were under 39.6% bracket, only 195 thousands paid AMT.

That's not surprising at all.

Not everyone in the top tax bracket is super-rich (all you need is about $480k in taxable income for a couple). But yes, many of them don't pay because their average tax rate is above 28% (the AMT rate based on AMTI, alternative minimum taxable income), so their regular tax liability is higher than their AMT liability. That's why they lowered the top rate to 37%, so those folks wouldn't get hit hard by the missed deduction (in NY and CA is basically a wash when you factor in the SALT deduction).

What you guys forget to mention is that many of those 44.5m people who itemized in 2015 won't need to itemize in 2018 (standard deduction is almost doubled). And that they will still be able to take $10k in SALT deduction (in almost all cases with no AMT recapture). So you know who are the only people that should prepay 2018 property taxes now to avoid an extra tax hit? The 1% (not even all of them).

People who itemize this year and are not in the AMT are getting an EXTRA tax break (because most likely they will either take the standard deduction next year or the $10k SALT deduction with no AMT).

They are making it sound like the poor and lower middle class people have to rush to pay property taxes and avoid this unfair new law.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 hour ago, charmander said:

 

Ok let me help you guys with that. 2016 statistics are not available but according to the 2015 IRS stats; that number was ~90%. 44.5 million returns took itemized deductions. 4.3 millions paid AMT. 

 

Couple more stats from 2015; total number of returns were 150 millions and total number of AMTs were 4.47 millions. AMT starts hurting at 28% bracket but significantly at 33 -35% brackets. Surprisingly more than 80% of the super rich (39.6% bracket) did not pay AMT. 1.03 million returns were under 39.6% bracket, only 195 thousands paid AMT.

Thanks for the real data.  So using 150 million to represent "folk" divided into 5 million leaves 97% unaffected making my estimate low.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 hours ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

You are implying that 95% of taxpayers who itemize are not in the AMT?

Get your facts straight.

I’m pretty certain Mango is referring to the people here on CEHST.  I doubt there are more than 3 people here who make more than $200K a year.  Quite a few make less than $50K.

 

You deal with different clients than mainstream America I think, Italian.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 hours ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Do you itemize? If so the income, sales, property and car tabs are are deductions.

I do, and I will for 2017.  Fortunately, that burden will be lifted in 2018 with the new tax law.  The $24K standard deduction will be much more than my current $15-16K itemized deductions that I have to prove every year.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

5 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

I’m pretty certain Mango is referring to the people here on CEHST.  I doubt there are more than 3 people here who make more than $200K a year.  Quite a few make less than $50K.

 

You deal with different clients than mainstream America I think, Italian.

Maybe, but how many people making less than $50k will itemize over $24k?

How many of those have a SALT bill of over $10k?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

14 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

Maybe, but how many people making less than $50k will itemize over $24k?

How many of those have a SALT bill of over $10k?

None

Don’t even know what SALT is, outside of what I season my food with. Himalayan, preferably.