WTF! Do we HAVE to tip everyone??

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

In most resturants here the waiter/waitress only make 2.15 or about an hours and must rely on tips to make a living, even for donuts.

What ever happened to this mythical "minimum wage" thing?

Service staff at two to three bucks an hour (+tips) is also covered by the federal minimum wage laws. Folks in these jobs have to report tips received to their employer who has to account for these employees making the $5.15/hour through hourly wages and tips. If the employee doesn't make enought ips to come up to $5.15/hour, the employer has to make up the difference. In such case, the employee will get the axe.

[ChristinaM 0]

<snip>

AND on top of that, waiters and waitresses have to declare tips as income on their taxes (or are suppose to.)

I know, I know...if they don't like it, they should do something else. But for some folk, waiting tables fits their lives/schedules the best.

If people working in food service rely on their tips to bring them up to minimum wage, then those tips shoud be declared as income. How would it be if people working in grocery stores for minimum wage only had to declare the first $2.12 or whatever of each hour earned? Or anyone at all, for that matter?

I will tip for mediocre service. I will tip for bad food, but good service. I will tip for a long wait at a busy bar and eventual good service. But I will not tip for the privilege of being played for a fool.

As I said, I'm a sales professional. That's what pays mine and my hubbys way at the moment. If I don't treat my prospects or clients well they don't buy (EVEN if we have the best price and product) and I don't get commissioned - tipped, if you will. But I'm not their only option. They can take their business elsewhere without even leaving their office. It's a bit different when you're in a bar or restaurant; the laws of supply and demand are not in balance and the servers hold the power. How they choose to use it is up to them. If they wield it well and give me good service, I tip. I'm in the realm of the 25-35% AVERAGE tip - it's worth your while to be nice to me. If they wield that power foolishly and serve their friends first, ignore that short girl at the bar in favour of the cute trumpet player, then they never know when that woman they've been ignoring is going to pay for the trumpet players drink. And I will not tip for that.

If they don't like it, then they should get a different job. Notice, we're talking about the SERVICE industry here. If you don't like serving people, it's probably the wrong place to be. There are other flexible jobs out there with equally odd hours that pay minimum wage - which is already higher than what your base salary is now! With the advent of telecommuting for a regular job, call-centre-from-homes jobs and of course, good ol' fashioned shift work, there's no excuse to be in the service industry unless you want to be of service.

I will make an exception for the fast-food industry - that doesn't count as service

Sorry Frances - I'm not getting at you but the entitlement mentality of some waitstaff really, REALLY gets on my nerves!

(Would you have noticed?! )

[Fuzzness 2]

In most resturants here the waiter/waitress only make 2.15 or about an hours and must rely on tips to make a living, even for donuts.

What ever happened to this mythical "minimum wage" thing?

Service staff at two to three bucks an hour (+tips) is also covered by the federal minimum wage laws. Folks in these jobs have to report tips received to their employer who has to account for these employees making the $5.15/hour through hourly wages and tips. If the employee doesn't make enought ips to come up to $5.15/hour, the employer has to make up the difference. In such case, the employee will get the axe.

What a great way to run a business. Let the customers pay your employee's wages.

[canadalaura 0]

I thought servers were legally required to report their tips? The same way we as salespeople are required to report commissions - I hate how commissions usually just up my paycheque to the point that I pay way more tax

[I'm Gone 60]

What a great way to run a business. Let the customers pay your employee's wages.

Yeah people b*tch about what Wal-Mart pays people. I would work at Wal-Mart anyday over having to depend on tips to make a living.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

<snip>

AND on top of that, waiters and waitresses have to declare tips as income on their taxes (or are suppose to.)

I know, I know...if they don't like it, they should do something else. But for some folk, waiting tables fits their lives/schedules the best.

If people working in food service rely on their tips to bring them up to minimum wage, then those tips shoud be declared as income. How would it be if people working in grocery stores for minimum wage only had to declare the first $2.12 or whatever of each hour earned? Or anyone at all, for that matter.

They DO have to declare their tip income. We all know they don't declare all of it but they most certainly declare that portion of their tip income that brings them up to the minimum wage. Again, the employer is required to demonstrate that the employee makes at least minimum wage. Those that don't make it get the boot.

In most resturants here the waiter/waitress only make 2.15 or about an hours and must rely on tips to make a living, even for donuts.

What ever happened to this mythical "minimum wage" thing?

Service staff at two to three bucks an hour (+tips) is also covered by the federal minimum wage laws. Folks in these jobs have to report tips received to their employer who has to account for these employees making the $5.15/hour through hourly wages and tips. If the employee doesn't make enought ips to come up to $5.15/hour, the employer has to make up the difference. In such case, the employee will get the axe.

What a great way to run a business. Let the customers pay your employee's wages.

You do that as a customer in any business you visit. Or do you think you're not paying for the wages in your local grocery when you shop there?

Edited March 21, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Fuzzness 2]

You do that as a customer in any business you visit. Or do you think you're not paying for the wages in your local grocery when you shop there?

Actually, I thought I was paying the grocery store, not the employee directly.

At a restaurant I am paying the restaurant, and forking out a few extra bucks to pay the waiter/waitress. To me it seems like I am paying half of the employee's wages along with paying the restaurant for the food.

[ctjwa 0]

What a great way to run a business. Let the customers pay your employee's wages.

It is a great way. If people didn't tip, the restaraunt would have to pay the waitstaff more (since nobody would work there for $2.50 an hour). In turn they would raise the prices on your cheeseburger. On top of that, the waitstaff wouldn't have any incentive to work hard, so your more expensive burger would probably be served cold and rudely.

[Jenn! 918]

<snip>

AND on top of that, waiters and waitresses have to declare tips as income on their taxes (or are suppose to.)

I know, I know...if they don't like it, they should do something else. But for some folk, waiting tables fits their lives/schedules the best.

If people working in food service rely on their tips to bring them up to minimum wage, then those tips shoud be declared as income. How would it be if people working in grocery stores for minimum wage only had to declare the first $2.12 or whatever of each hour earned? Or anyone at all, for that matter?

I will tip for mediocre service. I will tip for bad food, but good service. I will tip for a long wait at a busy bar and eventual good service. But I will not tip for the privilege of being played for a fool.

As I said, I'm a sales professional. That's what pays mine and my hubbys way at the moment. If I don't treat my prospects or clients well they don't buy (EVEN if we have the best price and product) and I don't get commissioned - tipped, if you will. But I'm not their only option. They can take their business elsewhere without even leaving their office. It's a bit different when you're in a bar or restaurant; the laws of supply and demand are not in balance and the servers hold the power. How they choose to use it is up to them. If they wield it well and give me good service, I tip. I'm in the realm of the 25-35% AVERAGE tip - it's worth your while to be nice to me. If they wield that power foolishly and serve their friends first, ignore that short girl at the bar in favour of the cute trumpet player, then they never know when that woman they've been ignoring is going to pay for the trumpet players drink. And I will not tip for that.

If they don't like it, then they should get a different job. Notice, we're talking about the SERVICE industry here. If you don't like serving people, it's probably the wrong place to be. There are other flexible jobs out there with equally odd hours that pay minimum wage - which is already higher than what your base salary is now! With the advent of telecommuting for a regular job, call-centre-from-homes jobs and of course, good ol' fashioned shift work, there's no excuse to be in the service industry unless you want to be of service.

I will make an exception for the fast-food industry - that doesn't count as service

Sorry Frances - I'm not getting at you but the entitlement mentality of some waitstaff really, REALLY gets on my nerves!

(Would you have noticed?! )

I don't think anyone disagreed with you. Poor service deserves a bad tip for sure.

I have a good deal of experience waiting tables, and I must say I was pretty good at it. Even so, many people won't even tip 15% for excellent service, either because they protest the idea or are just plain clueless.

[Sister Fracas 5]

A few things...

If people working in food service rely on their tips to bring them up to minimum wage, then those tips shoud be declared as income.

They DO have to declare it, by law. Whether they do is another quesiton altogether. And I think Reinhard's reply about how the restaurant industry does it, explains it better than me.

I will tip for mediocre service. I will tip for bad food, but good service. I will tip for a long wait at a busy bar and eventual good service. But I will not tip for the privilege of being played for a fool.

Nothing wrong with that...

It's a bit different when you're in a bar or restaurant; the laws of supply and demand are not in balance and the servers hold the power. How they choose to use it is up to them. If they wield it well and give me good service, I tip. I'm in the realm of the 25-35% AVERAGE tip - it's worth your while to be nice to me. If they wield that power foolishly and serve their friends first, ignore that short girl at the bar in favour of the cute trumpet player, then they never know when that woman they've been ignoring is going to pay for the trumpet players drink. And I will not tip for that.

They ARE foolish to not provide good service to everyone. Having been in sales years ago myself, one of the first things we were taught is not to judge the appearance because you never knew how much their checkbook was worth. And really good restaurants know this and know how to train their staff.

If they don't like it, then they should get a different job. Notice, we're talking about the SERVICE industry here. If you don't like serving people, it's probably the wrong place to be. There are other flexible jobs out there with equally odd hours that pay minimum wage - which is already higher than what your base salary is now! With the advent of telecommuting for a regular job, call-centre-from-homes jobs and of course, good ol' fashioned shift work, there's no excuse to be in the service industry unless you want to be of service.

Agree....but I also know that these are easy jobs to get with high turnaround, where training is minimal...also, it's a good place to work at night if you are a student, actor, etc. I'm just grateful I never had to do it, because I don't believe it's easy work. I guess it was the "get off their arses and do the work that if they were worth it, their employer would be paying their as their salary" comment that got my attention.

Sorry Frances - I'm not getting at you but the entitlement mentality of some waitstaff really, REALLY gets on my nerves!

(Would you have noticed?! )

No, not at all... I guess I just see waitstaff for the most part as really trying to earn those tips because they know what their base salary is. My husband has commented several times that service is so much better here because of people are working for those tips. In a pub, a surly pub owner can growl at ya "whadayya want?", plunk the drink down, take your money and that's that. He doesn't have to be nice...LOL

[babybunny 2]

I tip when I feel the need too!

[Sister Fracas 5]

As a side note...I went to a restuarant with someone visiting from Germany. She wanted to pay the bill. The meal, which was OUTSTANDING came to $56, and she left a total of $60....I was APPALLED!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't feel I knew her well enough to say...ahhh, that's not enough. Sure, she's back in Germany, but I'll never be allowed in the restuarant again...LOL

[Jenn! 918]

As a side note...I went to a restuarant with someone visiting from Germany. She wanted to pay the bill. The meal, which was OUTSTANDING came to $56, and she left a total of $60....I was APPALLED!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't feel I knew her well enough to say...ahhh, that's not enough. Sure, she's back in Germany, but I'll never be allowed in the restuarant again...LOL

Waitresses in places where I've worked would fight over who had to take the tables of foreigners. We knew that generally the tip would be a lot lower, if any at all. I remember waiting once on a large party of Europeans. I should have expected at least a $40 tip - they left zip. Which is why many restaurants add gratuity automatically for large parties.

[ChristinaM 0]

I wasn't suggesting that the workers weren't worth paying minimum wage to, Frances!! Oh my, I didn't realise it had come across like that

I also am aware that they have to declare tips to make up minimum wage (and the rest, in theory), and I think that's a good practice. When I said "they should declare it", it was more of a "damn straight they should be taxed on what they earn like the rest of us".

I forget that the way I emphasise things in my head is not always the way that other people do

As an aside, if you tip your barstaff in the UK, I expect they probably think all their Christmasses have come at once - they must LOVE Americans

Edited March 21, 2006 by clmarsh

[Fuzzness 2]

What a great way to run a business. Let the customers pay your employee's wages.

It is a great way. If people didn't tip, the restaraunt would have to pay the waitstaff more (since nobody would work there for $2.50 an hour). In turn they would raise the prices on your cheeseburger. On top of that, the waitstaff wouldn't have any incentive to work hard, so your more expensive burger would probably be served cold and rudely.

I already pay $5 for my cheeseburger. Are you telling me that at that price they can't afford to pay their employees $6/hr?