Supreme Court permits full enforcement of Trump travel ban

[jayjayj 571]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

I remember this.  Canada then started deporting most of those people, because they weren't eligible for asylum under Canadian immigration law.    

[jayjayj 571]

10 hours ago, bcking said:

What evidence existed that they weren't vetted well enough before?

 

Were terrorists "falling through the cracks"?

 

9 hours ago, Dunngary said:

The EO was a measure to appease his base. It improves nothing and as many experts pointed out it doesn't improve security either. 

Below, are the explanations (taken directly from the EO) for each country being included in the partial travel ban.  It seem pretty logical to most people.  These are either state sponsors of terror or failed states with active ISIS elements conducting military operations in their country.  Take your emotions and politics out of it and consider what is best for America. 

 

"(i)    Iran.  Iran has been designated as a state sponsor of terrorism since 1984 and continues to support various terrorist groups, including Hizballah, Hamas, and terrorist groups in Iraq.  Iran has also been linked to support for al-Qa'ida and has permitted al-Qa'ida to transport funds and fighters through Iran to Syria and South Asia.  Iran does not cooperate with the United States in counterterrorism efforts.

(ii)   Libya.  Libya is an active combat zone, with hostilities between the internationally recognized government and its rivals.  In many parts of the country, security and law enforcement functions are provided by armed militias rather than state institutions.  Violent extremist groups, including the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), have exploited these conditions to expand their presence in the country.  The Libyan government provides some cooperation with the United States' counterterrorism efforts, but it is unable to secure thousands of miles of its land and maritime borders, enabling the illicit flow of weapons, migrants, and foreign terrorist fighters.  The United States Embassy in Libya suspended its operations in 2014.

(iii)  Somalia.  Portions of Somalia have been terrorist safe havens.  Al-Shabaab, an al-Qa'ida-affiliated terrorist group, has operated in the country for years and continues to plan and mount operations within Somalia and in neighboring countries.  Somalia has porous borders, and most countries do not recognize Somali identity documents.  The Somali government cooperates with the United States in some counterterrorism operations but does not have the capacity to sustain military pressure on or to investigate suspected terrorists.

(iv)   Sudan.  Sudan has been designated as a state sponsor of terrorism since 1993 because of its support for international terrorist groups, including Hizballah and Hamas.  Historically, Sudan provided safe havens for al-Qa'ida and other terrorist groups to meet and train.  Although Sudan's support to al-Qa'ida has ceased and it provides some cooperation with the United States' counterterrorism efforts, elements of core al-Qa'ida and ISIS-linked terrorist groups remain active in the country.

(v)    Syria.  Syria has been designated as a state sponsor of terrorism since 1979.  The Syrian government is engaged in an ongoing military conflict against ISIS and others for control of portions of the country.  At the same time, Syria continues to support other terrorist groups.  It has allowed or encouraged extremists to pass through its territory to enter Iraq.  ISIS continues to attract foreign fighters to Syria and to use its base in Syria to plot or encourage attacks around the globe, including in the United States.  The United States Embassy in Syria suspended its operations in 2012.  Syria does not cooperate with the United States' counterterrorism efforts.

(vi)   Yemen.  Yemen is the site of an ongoing conflict between the incumbent government and the Houthi-led opposition.  Both ISIS and a second group, al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), have exploited this conflict to expand their presence in Yemen and to carry out hundreds of attacks.  Weapons and other materials smuggled across Yemen's porous borders are used to finance AQAP and other terrorist activities.  In 2015, the United States Embassy in Yemen suspended its operations, and embassy staff were relocated out of the country.  Yemen has been supportive of, but has not been able to cooperate fully with, the United States in counterterrorism efforts."

[jayjayj 571]

11 hours ago, bcking said:

We should all be super excited for randomly banning people from 5 countries, while not actually making our country any safer.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/trump-immigration-ban-terrorism/514361/

 

But of course this has everything to do with safety...and facts...so many facts to back up the ban....huge facts...we just seem to have misplaced them.

 

I could maybe have a discussion on the merits of temporarily halting immigration from specific countries in the interest of national security. But those countries would have to actually be sources of immigrant terrorists in the USA. None of those on this "travel ban" list have been.

Meanwhile, there are several other countries that have. So the fact that those other countries aren't the target screams ulterior motives or conflicting priorities (The countries that actually do contribute to terrorists are more friendly with us and we don't want to offend, perhaps?).

What do you suspect the ulterior motives to be in this case?

 

Would you consider banning countries that conduct extrajudicial executions of homosexuals?  I would support adding those countries to the ban.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

On 12/4/2017 at 8:37 PM, Steeleballz said:

 

     A couple of senators said they were not even going to read it. I can see the appeal of politics sometimes. Where else can people get paid for actually not doing their job?

Weather forecasters.

[broppy 204]

7 hours ago, jayjayj said:

Below, are the explanations (taken directly from the EO) for each country being included in the partial travel ban. 

That's the wrong list. The EO was superceded by presidential proclamation in September. Sudan is no longer on the list. Chad, North Korea, and Venezuela have been added. The explanations for each country have also been changed.

[jayjayj 571]

1 minute ago, broppy said:

That's the wrong list. The EO was superceded by presidential proclamation in September. Sudan is no longer on the list. Chad, North Korea, and Venezuela have been added. The explanations for each country have also been changed.

My bad.  Here is the updated list -

 

"(a)  Chad.  

(i)   The government of Chad is an important and valuable counterterrorism partner of the United States, and the United States Government looks forward to expanding that cooperation, including in the areas of immigration and border management.  Chad has shown a clear willingness to improve in these areas.  Nonetheless, Chad does not adequately share public-safety and terrorism-related information and fails to satisfy at least one key risk criterion.  Additionally, several terrorist groups are active within Chad or in the surrounding region, including elements of Boko Haram, ISIS-West Africa, and al-Qa'ida in the Islamic Maghreb.  At this time, additional information sharing to identify those foreign nationals applying for visas or seeking entry into the United States who represent national security and public-safety threats is necessary given the significant terrorism-related risk from this country.  

(ii)  The entry into the United States of nationals of Chad, as immigrants, and as nonimmigrants on business (B-1), tourist (B-2), and business/tourist (B-1/B-2) visas, is hereby suspended.

(b)  Iran.  

(i)   Iran regularly fails to cooperate with the United States Government in identifying security risks, fails to satisfy at least one key risk criterion, is the source of significant terrorist threats, and fails to receive its nationals subject to final orders of removal from the United States.  The Department of State has also designated Iran as a state sponsor of terrorism. 

(ii)  The entry into the United States of nationals of Iran as immigrants and as nonimmigrants is hereby suspended, except that entry by such nationals under valid student (F and M) and exchange visitor (J) visas is not suspended, although such individuals should be subject to enhanced screening and vetting requirements.

(c)  Libya.

(i)   The government of Libya is an important and valuable counterterrorism partner of the United States, and the United States Government looks forward to expanding on that cooperation, including in the areas of immigration and border management.  Libya, nonetheless, faces significant challenges in sharing several types of information, including public-safety and terrorism-related information necessary for the protection of the national security and public safety of the United States.  Libya also has significant inadequacies in its identity-management protocols.  Further, Libya fails to satisfy at least one key risk criterion and has been assessed to be not fully cooperative with respect to receiving its nationals subject to final orders of removal from the United States.  The substantial terrorist presence within Libya's territory amplifies the risks posed by the entry into the United States of its nationals.  

(ii)  The entry into the United States of nationals of Libya, as immigrants, and as nonimmigrants on business (B-1), tourist (B-2), and business/tourist (B-1/B-2) visas, is hereby suspended.

(d)  North Korea.  

(i)   North Korea does not cooperate with the United States Government in any respect and fails to satisfy all information-sharing requirements. 

(ii)  The entry into the United States of nationals of North Korea as immigrants and nonimmigrants is hereby suspended.

(e)  Syria.  

(i)   Syria regularly fails to cooperate with the United States Government in identifying security risks, is the source of significant terrorist threats, and has been designated by the Department of State as a state sponsor of terrorism.  Syria has significant inadequacies in identity-management protocols, fails to share public-safety and terrorism information, and fails to satisfy at least one key risk criterion.

(ii)  The entry into the United States of nationals of Syria as immigrants and nonimmigrants is hereby suspended.

 Venezuela.  

(i)   Venezuela has adopted many of the baseline standards identified by the Secretary of Homeland Security and in section 1 of this proclamation, but its government is uncooperative in verifying whether its citizens pose national security or public-safety threats.  Venezuela's government fails to share public-safety and terrorism-related information adequately, fails to satisfy at least one key risk criterion, and has been assessed to be not fully cooperative with respect to receiving its nationals subject to final orders of removal from the United States.  There are, however, alternative sources for obtaining information to verify the citizenship and identity of nationals from Venezuela.  As a result, the restrictions imposed by this proclamation focus on government officials of Venezuela who are responsible for the identified inadequacies.

(ii)  Notwithstanding section 3(b)(v) of this proclamation, the entry into the United States of officials of government agencies of Venezuela involved in screening and vetting procedures -- including the Ministry of the Popular Power for Interior, Justice and Peace; the Administrative Service of Identification, Migration and Immigration; the Scientific, Penal and Criminal Investigation Service Corps; the Bolivarian National Intelligence Service; and the Ministry of the Popular Power for Foreign Relations -- and their immediate family members, as nonimmigrants on business (B-1), tourist (B-2), and business/tourist (B-1/B-2) visas, is hereby suspended.  Further, nationals of Venezuela who are visa holders should be subject to appropriate additional measures to ensure traveler information remains current. 

(g)  Yemen.

(i)   The government of Yemen is an important and valuable counterterrorism partner, and the United States Government looks forward to expanding that cooperation, including in the areas of immigration and border management.  Yemen, nonetheless, faces significant identity-management challenges, which are amplified by the notable terrorist presence within its territory.  The government of Yemen fails to satisfy critical identity-management requirements, does not share public-safety and terrorism-related information adequately, and fails to satisfy at least one key risk criterion.

(ii)  The entry into the United States of nationals of Yemen as immigrants, and as nonimmigrants on business (B-1), tourist (B-2), and business/tourist (B-1/B-2) visas, is hereby suspended.

(h)  Somalia.  

(i)   The Secretary of Homeland Security's report of September 15, 2017, determined that Somalia satisfies the information-sharing requirements of the baseline described in section 1(c) of this proclamation.  But several other considerations support imposing entry restrictions and limitations on Somalia.  Somalia has significant identity-management deficiencies.  For example, while Somalia issues an electronic passport, the United States and many other countries do not recognize it.  A persistent terrorist threat also emanates from Somalia's territory.  The United States Government has identified Somalia as a terrorist safe haven.  Somalia stands apart from other countries in the degree to which its government lacks command and control of its territory, which greatly limits the effectiveness of its national capabilities in a variety of respects.  Terrorists use under-governed areas in northern, central, and southern Somalia as safe havens from which to plan, facilitate, and conduct their operations.  Somalia also remains a destination for individuals attempting to join terrorist groups that threaten the national security of the United States.  The State Department's 2016 Country Reports on Terrorism observed that Somalia has not sufficiently degraded the ability of terrorist groups to plan and mount attacks from its territory.  Further, despite having made significant progress toward formally federating its member states, and its willingness to fight terrorism, Somalia continues to struggle to provide the governance needed to limit terrorists' freedom of movement, access to resources, and capacity to operate.  The government of Somalia's lack of territorial control also compromises Somalia's ability, already limited because of poor recordkeeping, to share information about its nationals who pose criminal or terrorist risks.  As a result of these and other factors, Somalia presents special concerns that distinguish it from other countries.

(ii)  The entry into the United States of nationals of Somalia as immigrants is hereby suspended.  Additionally, visa adjudications for nationals of Somalia and decisions regarding their entry as nonimmigrants should be subject to additional scrutiny to determine if applicants are connected to terrorist organizations or otherwise pose a threat to the national security or public safety of the United States."

[jayjayj 571]

There is a lot of common sense and logic in that list above. ^^^^^^^^

[Dashinka 24,502]

9 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

There is a lot of common sense and logic in that list above. ^^^^^^^^

Not if one is in favor of open borders.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

4 hours ago, jayjayj said:

There is a lot of common sense and logic in that list above. ^^^^^^^^

All Hail Mattis.

 

 

#MAGA